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Council forges links with African youth
11:47am Tuesday 2nd September 2008
Comments (29)YOUTH workers from Thurrock have travelled to africa to help ensure the borough meetings the ever-changing needs of its young people.
Over recent years the numbers of families coming to Thurrock with an African background has been on the increase.
Earlier this year, Thurrock’s 14-19 Strategic Partnership of schools, colleges and the council agreed to join a Community Exchange programme with the British Council and Voluntary Service Overseas (VSO) between Thurrock and Mombasa in Kenya.
The aim is to offer professionals working with the borough’s young people the opportunity to develop, so their wider experience can benefit those they normally work with.
Three members of Thurrock’s Youth Service have been leading on a British Council initiative in Kenya picking up on good practice in promoting community cohesion and encouraging participation.
It is planned that Thurrock will host reciprocal working visitors from Kenya during the autumn.
The Council says Thurrock’s young people will directly benefit from these new links developed between the two countries.
Councillor Sue MacPherson, Thurrock Council’s Cabinet member for Children’s Services, said: “In this ever-changing world it is imperative that those working with young people understand the background of those children and youths.
“Knowledge of different cultures is an important part of creating a cohesive, understanding and peaceful society here at home. It enables council staff to pass on what they have learned to their colleagues and provide a sympathetic ear to the children.
“However, while we have been taking part in this scheme, the council has also ensured that, during the summer, Thurrock’s Youth and Connexions Service has continued to offer a range of activities for the borough’s young people.
“These have included day trips, walking expeditions, music workshops and recording sessions, drop-in advice sessions, attendance at community events, youth activities, climbing wall sessions and residential trips.”
Your Say YourThurrock Gazette
pa, Grays says...
2:11pm Tue 2 Sep 08
How nice for council staff to go on what I assume was an all expenses paid junket to an African country with a coastline on the indian ocean. This is a stunt right out of the top draw of Red Ken and his corrupt advisers. The staff that went didn't happen to be from Kenya did they?
What special efforts are the council making to connect with the kids of parents who haven't just arrived here. Will they be taking weekends living in Tilbury or Grays to find out what kids that have just left school and can't find a job fee like? Will they be making special efforts to ensure that british children don't feel alienated in their own country?
You really couldn't make this up. How much more of taxpayers money are this council going to spend on alienating it's british council taxpayers. Maybe we should start asking the recently arrived African community to pay an extra levy for the preferntial treatment they appear to be receiving.
What special efforts are the council making to connect with the kids of parents who haven't just arrived here. Will they be taking weekends living in Tilbury or Grays to find out what kids that have just left school and can't find a job fee like? Will they be making special efforts to ensure that british children don't feel alienated in their own country?
You really couldn't make this up. How much more of taxpayers money are this council going to spend on alienating it's british council taxpayers. Maybe we should start asking the recently arrived African community to pay an extra levy for the preferntial treatment they appear to be receiving.
pa, Grays says...
3:42pm Tue 2 Sep 08
Could the council also explain why it is that council tax payers are expected to pay for trips abroad for staff so that they can understand the cultures of people that have moved to this country? Surely it should be the other way round. Yet another example that people who move here clearly have no intention of integrating into mainstream society and being British at all. In a few decades we will have seperatist governments in this country, it will not just be a case of England, Sotland and Wales. Independence will become a free for all
BABBSIE, TILBURY says...
1:50am Wed 3 Sep 08
Well people of thurrock, you can see what your council tax is being spent on and why its going up and up. Jolly ups to Africa to learn how to treat immigrant youths here, And they said we don't have to pay out for immigration. When we are all in the knife gang gun 5h*t wonder how many of you stupid do-gooders will still be do-gooders. I will be white flight ethnically cleansed from thurrock by then, so you do-gooders will have to put up with a third world NHS, wonder why your kids haven't got school places dodging knife fights going past the ghettos to sing on before nightfall to doge drive by shootings and live in the faeces you have created for your children and yourselves. while the poor immigrants you so eagerly helped will have it all.
And pa do you beleive any of these ever had the intention of integrating into mainstream society and being British at all
Watford Asian Community care- Watford African Caribbean Association -The Somali Integration Society
Roma Support Group (RSG).-British-Bangl
adeshi Professional Association -Zimbabwe Association
Funsani uk ( Zambia)-Azad Kashmire Welfare Association ( Pakistan )-Meaf (Midlands Ethnic Albanian Foundation )
Menaca (Middle Eastern & North African Community Association)- Yemeni Community Association
Midlands Vietnamese Refugee Community Association-Asians In Media (AIM)-Operation Black Vote
Board Of Deputies of British JewsBarfi Culture (Asians)-The Black Presence In Britain-Dimsum (Chinese)
Clickwalla (Asian)-National Association of Nigerian Communities - UK (NANC)-Islington Zairean Refugee Group
Midlands Vietnamese Refugee Community Association-Ethiopia
n Refugee Association in Haringey
Kenyan Society of London-Sudan Relief and Rehabilitation Association. Ect
Have you noticed how the media NEVER calls any of these organisations “racist” even though they are openly organised along ethnic lines and stand for the rights of their respective communities?
It seems as if every group has the right to have an organisation speaking up for its rights - EXCEPT the indigenous British people.
In reality, none of these organisations are “racist” — each and every community has the inalienable right to look after its own interests.
This includes the indigenous British folk, and the BNP is proud to be the party which stands up for the rights our folk and country, in exactly the same way that all of the above organisations stand up for their folk
And pa do you beleive any of these ever had the intention of integrating into mainstream society and being British at all
Watford Asian Community care- Watford African Caribbean Association -The Somali Integration Society
Roma Support Group (RSG).-British-Bangl
adeshi Professional Association -Zimbabwe Association
Funsani uk ( Zambia)-Azad Kashmire Welfare Association ( Pakistan )-Meaf (Midlands Ethnic Albanian Foundation )
Menaca (Middle Eastern & North African Community Association)- Yemeni Community Association
Midlands Vietnamese Refugee Community Association-Asians In Media (AIM)-Operation Black Vote
Board Of Deputies of British JewsBarfi Culture (Asians)-The Black Presence In Britain-Dimsum (Chinese)
Clickwalla (Asian)-National Association of Nigerian Communities - UK (NANC)-Islington Zairean Refugee Group
Midlands Vietnamese Refugee Community Association-Ethiopia
n Refugee Association in Haringey
Kenyan Society of London-Sudan Relief and Rehabilitation Association. Ect
Have you noticed how the media NEVER calls any of these organisations “racist” even though they are openly organised along ethnic lines and stand for the rights of their respective communities?
It seems as if every group has the right to have an organisation speaking up for its rights - EXCEPT the indigenous British people.
In reality, none of these organisations are “racist” — each and every community has the inalienable right to look after its own interests.
This includes the indigenous British folk, and the BNP is proud to be the party which stands up for the rights our folk and country, in exactly the same way that all of the above organisations stand up for their folk
Baphomet, Thurrock says...
7:38am Wed 3 Sep 08
Why do they need to sent these leftie do gooders to Africa when we are living in a small African country as it is? Look no further than our own country and you can see what Africans have done to it, high crime, no morals, they take everything and give nothing back and are turning this country into their third world toilet.
pa, Grays says...
8:14am Wed 3 Sep 08
BABBSIE no I didn't. I work in London every day and know what it's like. This is why it costs a council Like Hackney over half a million pounds a year in translation, and that doesn't include the translation of general documents. Lets see what Councillor Colgate thinks.
Baphomet, Thurrock says...
12:00pm Wed 3 Sep 08
What does this country owe Africa? Nothing, so why are we allowing them to flood this country? White South Africans come here to work and abide by our laws but have to have a work permit and are sent home at the end of it. Black Africans come here to milk our system and treat us like rubbish.
dave_amis, Stanford-le-Hope says...
8:35pm Thu 4 Sep 08
Oh dear, you really couldn’t make this one up! It’s not often that I agree with comments from pa but this exercise is a total waste of time and public money.
With any group of immigrants such as those of African origin, there will be decent people who want to make a future here, make a contribution to this country, integrate and become fully British – on the flip side there will be also a number of free loaders and chancers who will abuse our hospitality. While I would welcome the former (assuming our infrastructure can cope but that is another debate) as far as I’m concerned, the later can go as soon as they like.
For those who are determined to integrate, this initiative can only be a retrograde step as it encourages the perpetuation of a sense of difference among young black people when they should be assimilating into the mainstream culture. More to the point, how many of them actually want an initiative like this? I suspect many of them would find it patronising and utterly pointless as many have probably spent more of their lives here than in Africa and are well on their way to being fully integrated. Or were until some muddleheaded do-gooder came along with this idea which will only serve to exacerbate differences and inflame tensions.
This is exactly the kind of public funded initiative, aimed at one particular ethnic group that the IWCA has long opposed as it flies in the face of equality. It is privileging one group over the majority, most likely counter to the wishes of that group, and in the process leading to greater division and tension in the community. Understandably, people are getting fed up with stunts like this as they are rightly seen as discriminatory. It’s not racist to point out the divisive consequences of funding projects like this – it is plain commonsense as they run counter to most people’s sense of what is fair.
Dave Amis
Thurrock IWCA
With any group of immigrants such as those of African origin, there will be decent people who want to make a future here, make a contribution to this country, integrate and become fully British – on the flip side there will be also a number of free loaders and chancers who will abuse our hospitality. While I would welcome the former (assuming our infrastructure can cope but that is another debate) as far as I’m concerned, the later can go as soon as they like.
For those who are determined to integrate, this initiative can only be a retrograde step as it encourages the perpetuation of a sense of difference among young black people when they should be assimilating into the mainstream culture. More to the point, how many of them actually want an initiative like this? I suspect many of them would find it patronising and utterly pointless as many have probably spent more of their lives here than in Africa and are well on their way to being fully integrated. Or were until some muddleheaded do-gooder came along with this idea which will only serve to exacerbate differences and inflame tensions.
This is exactly the kind of public funded initiative, aimed at one particular ethnic group that the IWCA has long opposed as it flies in the face of equality. It is privileging one group over the majority, most likely counter to the wishes of that group, and in the process leading to greater division and tension in the community. Understandably, people are getting fed up with stunts like this as they are rightly seen as discriminatory. It’s not racist to point out the divisive consequences of funding projects like this – it is plain commonsense as they run counter to most people’s sense of what is fair.
Dave Amis
Thurrock IWCA
Joe Public™, Essex says...
9:27am Fri 5 Sep 08
dave_amis wrote:Hit the nail square n the head there Dave.
Oh dear, you really couldn’t make this one up! It’s not often that I agree with comments from pa but this exercise is a total waste of time and public money.
With any group of immigrants such as those of African origin, there will be decent people who want to make a future here, make a contribution to this country, integrate and become fully British – on the flip side there will be also a number of free loaders and chancers who will abuse our hospitality. While I would welcome the former (assuming our infrastructure can cope but that is another debate) as far as I’m concerned, the later can go as soon as they like.
For those who are determined to integrate, this initiative can only be a retrograde step as it encourages the perpetuation of a sense of difference among young black people when they should be assimilating into the mainstream culture. More to the point, how many of them actually want an initiative like this? I suspect many of them would find it patronising and utterly pointless as many have probably spent more of their lives here than in Africa and are well on their way to being fully integrated. Or were until some muddleheaded do-gooder came along with this idea which will only serve to exacerbate differences and inflame tensions.
This is exactly the kind of public funded initiative, aimed at one particular ethnic group that the IWCA has long opposed as it flies in the face of equality. It is privileging one group over the majority, most likely counter to the wishes of that group, and in the process leading to greater division and tension in the community. Understandably, people are getting fed up with stunts like this as they are rightly seen as discriminatory. It’s not racist to point out the divisive consequences of funding projects like this – it is plain commonsense as they run counter to most people’s sense of what is fair.
Dave Amis
Thurrock IWCA
Cliffordy2k, Grays says...
12:26pm Fri 5 Sep 08
The problem is that many groups like TRUST are actually recommending these initiatives and the council does not hesitate to take these forward. This organisation gets huge amounts in council grants over £200,000 (FOI) in funding. it promotes the ideas that divide the community. How does this organisation justify this funding, what is important is that the manager it was revealed last year (guess what) is a jewish woman who has single handly managed the organisation and created these projects. This is only relevant because shouldnt these organisations be managed by those it says it represents so it can be clear who is representing the organisation and what interests are being promoted. These projects are a waste of council money and the council should stand up for the other organisations in thurrock run by well meaning local people and stop supporting trust and these nonsense projects.
alfredo, stanford-le-hope says...
2:11pm Sun 7 Sep 08
i moved to stanford from east ham 20 years ago, east ham is like a third world country now. thurrock is going the same way, looks like im going to have to move on
The Contrarian, Purfleet says...
1:28pm Mon 8 Sep 08
I agree, what a toal waste of money. Where I disagree (Baphomet) is that we cant say the we owe Africa "nothing". I do believe that Thurrock is going down the pan (and has been for a while) but what I don't accept is that the deterioration is inextricably linked with the influx of African migrants.
What makes me chuckle is that there's clearly a misconception that Africa is a country.
What prats!
What makes me chuckle is that there's clearly a misconception that Africa is a country.
What prats!
Baphomet, Thurrock says...
4:02pm Mon 8 Sep 08
>I do believe that Thurrock is going down the pan (and has been for a while) but what I don't accept is that the deterioration is inextricably linked with the influx of African migrants.<
If we are prats then you are a major fool that has his/her head stuck up his/her behind.
If we are prats then you are a major fool that has his/her head stuck up his/her behind.
The Contrarian, Purfleet says...
5:15pm Mon 8 Sep 08
The "prats" comment is in reference to the thinking that Africa is a country.
Secondly, look up the word "inextricably". I've not commented on whether the influx of migrants (from Africa or elsewhere) has had a positive or negative affect. I just don't think that it's as clear cut as some people like to make out.
Secondly, look up the word "inextricably". I've not commented on whether the influx of migrants (from Africa or elsewhere) has had a positive or negative affect. I just don't think that it's as clear cut as some people like to make out.
pa, Grays says...
8:27am Tue 9 Sep 08
We see daily on the TV how immigration has affected our cities and I don't think it's unfair to say that the perception is that where there are large amounts of immigrants, you tend to get a run down area with high levels of poverty and crime and low educational achievements. This government has spent billions trying to change that perception and it hasn't worked. The reason it hasn't worked is that the areas of high immigrant populations still have high levels of poverty, crime and low educational standards.
The government has made this situation worse with it's policy of mass immigration, the non deportation of illegal immigrants and foreign criminals and the fact that it has lied to the british public time and again on the issue. Their immigration policy is in tatters, it is hypocritical and completely contradictory.
They took the British public for fools and got it right in some cases because some people were more than willing to swallow the story hook line and sinker.
It's now down to the next, probably conservative, government to put it right. If they don't then the counrty will sink under the weight and we won't have to worry anyway.
The government has made this situation worse with it's policy of mass immigration, the non deportation of illegal immigrants and foreign criminals and the fact that it has lied to the british public time and again on the issue. Their immigration policy is in tatters, it is hypocritical and completely contradictory.
They took the British public for fools and got it right in some cases because some people were more than willing to swallow the story hook line and sinker.
It's now down to the next, probably conservative, government to put it right. If they don't then the counrty will sink under the weight and we won't have to worry anyway.
Baphomet, Thurrock says...
8:38am Tue 9 Sep 08
We have masses of people coming here from countries where they have low morals, low education and high crime, they are dragging this country down to their level. We have our own youth copying this culture as they are too thick to relaise that its wrong. This country will be third world one day and most of the blame lies with white liberals. I cannot put into words my hatred for these people for what they have done to this country. Years ago they would have been tried and hanged for treason.
The Contrarian, Purfleet says...
10:01am Tue 9 Sep 08
I don't think that anyone could sensibly argue that uncontrolled immigration of the type we’ve seen has been resoundingly positive. What we’d do well to remind ourselves of though is that it’s not as if we’ve seen Thurrock turned from a once ‘green and pleasant land’ into a hell hole. It’s always been fairly miserable. Those parts of Thurrock that are perceived as being the worst (and having seen the greatest number of newcomers) have always been characterised by (relatively) high levels of unemployment, low educational expectation/attainme
nt, poor housing stock, low skilled/paid jobs. Obviously, all of these things have an affect on house prices, which means that property becomes comparatively affordable for the less well off. It’s natural that we’d start to see a migration from London. Generally, over the longer term, you’d expect that impact to be positive. I had cause to be on the Garrison Estate last week. I saw an African chap sweeping outside his house. I also noticed that one of the shops (which had been boarded up for a while) had been opened (seemingly by Africans) and was serving the local community. That’s just two of the positive examples I’ve seen recently. I’m not saying it’s all good – it isn’t, but (as usual) it’s not all doom and gloom.
nt, poor housing stock, low skilled/paid jobs. Obviously, all of these things have an affect on house prices, which means that property becomes comparatively affordable for the less well off. It’s natural that we’d start to see a migration from London. Generally, over the longer term, you’d expect that impact to be positive. I had cause to be on the Garrison Estate last week. I saw an African chap sweeping outside his house. I also noticed that one of the shops (which had been boarded up for a while) had been opened (seemingly by Africans) and was serving the local community. That’s just two of the positive examples I’ve seen recently. I’m not saying it’s all good – it isn’t, but (as usual) it’s not all doom and gloom.
pa, Grays says...
12:30pm Tue 9 Sep 08
Therin lies the problem, black people moving from London to Thurrock. I can't think of a single positive thing that I've read in the papers or seen on the TV for quite some time now that paints a positive picture of black people from London. Notting Hill carnival was a prime opportunity to say "this is what's good about the black community", and what were the headlines, "Notting Hill carnival ends in riot".
The only headlines that we see about black people are headlines about complete lawlessness in London. We are always hearing stories about the black community, which immediately invokes images of seperate communities unwilling to integrate and simply moving in and taking over. We hear stories about groups solely representing minority groups being given public funding when we are told that to do this for a group that solely represented the views of white english people would be racial discrimination.
We now have this on a massive scale and it's pushed in our faces daily as this story illustrates only too well.
The white english people in this country didn't create this problem. I personally don't ask to be treated in any way different to the next person whatever the colour of their skin. What I don't want is the country absolutely flooded with more and more people from every part of the globe and then be discriminated against myself from a government who's ideology seems to be that to discriminate against the english population is the only way to ensure that immigrants are treated fairly. They created the problem and white english people naturally feel marginalised and bullied into accepting their views because if you don't then you're racist. Mass immigration has to stop and the goverments policy of forcing people to accept it's immigration policy just won't work.
The only headlines that we see about black people are headlines about complete lawlessness in London. We are always hearing stories about the black community, which immediately invokes images of seperate communities unwilling to integrate and simply moving in and taking over. We hear stories about groups solely representing minority groups being given public funding when we are told that to do this for a group that solely represented the views of white english people would be racial discrimination.
We now have this on a massive scale and it's pushed in our faces daily as this story illustrates only too well.
The white english people in this country didn't create this problem. I personally don't ask to be treated in any way different to the next person whatever the colour of their skin. What I don't want is the country absolutely flooded with more and more people from every part of the globe and then be discriminated against myself from a government who's ideology seems to be that to discriminate against the english population is the only way to ensure that immigrants are treated fairly. They created the problem and white english people naturally feel marginalised and bullied into accepting their views because if you don't then you're racist. Mass immigration has to stop and the goverments policy of forcing people to accept it's immigration policy just won't work.
Baphomet, Thurrock says...
1:43pm Tue 9 Sep 08
Well said pa, couldn't have put it better myself.
The Contrarian, Purfleet says...
1:52pm Tue 9 Sep 08
Black people moving from London isn't a problem in itself. I think the portrayal of black people in the media is generally negative (sometimes justifiably, but usually disproportionately). The problem is that too many people form there opinions from what they read and hear. Get out into the communities and you’ll see that it’s not all bad. Of course all minorities would do well to better integrate as it would be in everyone’s best interest in the long run; however, the behaviour of all migrants is pretty similar – similar charges are levelled at the British when they colonise entire areas on the Continent (usually Spain). We all take some comfort in being among our ‘own kind’ but that doesn’t and shouldn’t mean that we don’t integrate. There are those within the black community that have bought into this entire industry that liberal do-gooders have created. It’s time for EVERYONE to take a long hard look at themselves; remove chips from shoulders, abandon preconceived notions and get on with life. Easier said than done, but the alternative is just too miserable to contemplate.
Lastly, it shows an astonishing lack of knowledge of English history is you can honestly say that the english didn't create this problem. Think of the plight of many Africans (not so long ago) and they would (I imagine) have been saying something pretty similar to what you've said in your last paragraph.
Lastly, it shows an astonishing lack of knowledge of English history is you can honestly say that the english didn't create this problem. Think of the plight of many Africans (not so long ago) and they would (I imagine) have been saying something pretty similar to what you've said in your last paragraph.
The Contrarian, Purfleet says...
1:52pm Tue 9 Sep 08
Black people moving from London isn't a problem in itself. I think the portrayal of black people in the media is generally negative (sometimes justifiably, but usually disproportionately). The problem is that too many people form there opinions from what they read and hear. Get out into the communities and you’ll see that it’s not all bad. Of course all minorities would do well to better integrate as it would be in everyone’s best interest in the long run; however, the behaviour of all migrants is pretty similar – similar charges are levelled at the British when they colonise entire areas on the Continent (usually Spain). We all take some comfort in being among our ‘own kind’ but that doesn’t and shouldn’t mean that we don’t integrate. There are those within the black community that have bought into this entire industry that liberal do-gooders have created. It’s time for EVERYONE to take a long hard look at themselves; remove chips from shoulders, abandon preconceived notions and get on with life. Easier said than done, but the alternative is just too miserable to contemplate.
Lastly, it shows an astonishing lack of knowledge of English history is you can honestly say that the english didn't create this problem. Think of the plight of many Africans (not so long ago) and they would (I imagine) have been saying something pretty similar to what you've said in your last paragraph.
Lastly, it shows an astonishing lack of knowledge of English history is you can honestly say that the english didn't create this problem. Think of the plight of many Africans (not so long ago) and they would (I imagine) have been saying something pretty similar to what you've said in your last paragraph.
pa, Grays says...
8:32am Wed 10 Sep 08
I'm no clairvoyant but I'm assuming you're talking about our colonial past and the slave trade. Lets not forget that the english weren't the only nation that colonised parts of Africa and were involved in the slave trade. and as that was over 200 years ago I would have thought that was confined to the past, or are we to have different rules once again for the British. We forget about 2 world wars, the last one 63 years ago, but we must remember our barbaric treatment of African slaves.
I think you'll find that most of the countries that are still in the commonwealth are some of the most stable in Africa, if there is such a thing. their recent histories since they gained independence has been blighted by years of civil war, which has done more to impoverish the continent of Africa than the slave trade did. The slave trade was in a time when the world was a very different place. And lets not forget some of the genocidal maniac African leaders that took over some of those past colonial countries. Idi Amin for instance. You'd never catch him enslaving his own people, and more recently that loveable rogue Robert Mugabe. Nothing racist or genocidal about him.
I think the worst thing that Europe has done recently, and not alone, is to supply these loonies with weapons bought with the aid money meant to be spent on rebuilding their countries, but then that's capitalism for you.
I think you'll find that most of the countries that are still in the commonwealth are some of the most stable in Africa, if there is such a thing. their recent histories since they gained independence has been blighted by years of civil war, which has done more to impoverish the continent of Africa than the slave trade did. The slave trade was in a time when the world was a very different place. And lets not forget some of the genocidal maniac African leaders that took over some of those past colonial countries. Idi Amin for instance. You'd never catch him enslaving his own people, and more recently that loveable rogue Robert Mugabe. Nothing racist or genocidal about him.
I think the worst thing that Europe has done recently, and not alone, is to supply these loonies with weapons bought with the aid money meant to be spent on rebuilding their countries, but then that's capitalism for you.
Baphomet, Thurrock says...
9:19am Wed 10 Sep 08
Contrarian, you say get out in the communities and see whats happening? I grew up in black areas so this is why I know whats coming to Thurrock. As for slavery, Africans were selling thier own people to the traders, and yet we have to apologise? I have no guilt about the slave trade as I wasn't there. Africa is a country torn apart by its own fraudulent, greedy, un-civilised leaders and yet idiots like Bob Geldof still want us to put our hands in our pockets for them.
The Contrarian, Purfleet says...
11:54am Wed 10 Sep 08
Pa, You’re quite correct….you’re not clairvoyant, I wasn’t talking about the slave trade (specifically). Of course, The British (although perhaps principally the English) weren’t the only nation to colonise parts of Africa (not to mention Asia) and I think that generally, the Empire – which was the greatest (vastest) in human history - can be considered to have been dismantled in a progressive and elightened way. One of the unfortunate legacies of course was that many in Africa became second class citizens and were denied some of the basic rights and freedoms that we today take forgranted. Just consider Britain’s place in the world…..we exercise influence (on the international stage) and control resource that is disproportionate when you consider our domestic capabilities and resources. This is undoubtably a legacy of the Empire. Of course it took huge amounts of courage, enginuity and bravado (all of which I celebrate) but our past – and future - are/will be defined by the Empire. Consider and remember the two world wars, but in doing so, remember and recognise the contribution that the Empire (including Africa) made in ensuring victory. I’m an optimist, and I genuinely think that Africa will eventually turn the corner; however, it’s not hard to argue that Africa’s history has been characterised by violence and it will take some time for the democratic structures to establish themselves in the way that they have here and in other parts of the developed world.
As an aside, I thought Idi Amin would have been write up your street. Driving the Asians out of Uganda in order to ensure that his own people prospered. Misguided and unfair certainly – but I would have thought that you could at least relate to it.
Baphomet, Wind your neck in. I haven’t asked for an apology. I personally don’t think it would be of any benefit. Just thank the good Lord that you’ve been fortunate enough to have been born into a democracy in the developed world. Most people in the world aren’t. Rest assured, that’s the luckiest thing that ever happened to you. Yes, parts of Africa are ‘uncivilised’ but let us not forget that one thing that sets the civilsed from the uncivilised is the constant endeavour to improve our lot and the lot of our fellow man. Regardless of the rights and wrongs, think of the children born into these countries. None of us ask to be born, and certainly none of us can choose who we’re born to. Consider that before you make such ignorant comments. I am not an apologist for Africa and/or Black People; however ,all I ask is that people get out into their communities and see some of the positive things out there. It will enable a more rounded and reasoned debate.
As an aside, I thought Idi Amin would have been write up your street. Driving the Asians out of Uganda in order to ensure that his own people prospered. Misguided and unfair certainly – but I would have thought that you could at least relate to it.
Baphomet, Wind your neck in. I haven’t asked for an apology. I personally don’t think it would be of any benefit. Just thank the good Lord that you’ve been fortunate enough to have been born into a democracy in the developed world. Most people in the world aren’t. Rest assured, that’s the luckiest thing that ever happened to you. Yes, parts of Africa are ‘uncivilised’ but let us not forget that one thing that sets the civilsed from the uncivilised is the constant endeavour to improve our lot and the lot of our fellow man. Regardless of the rights and wrongs, think of the children born into these countries. None of us ask to be born, and certainly none of us can choose who we’re born to. Consider that before you make such ignorant comments. I am not an apologist for Africa and/or Black People; however ,all I ask is that people get out into their communities and see some of the positive things out there. It will enable a more rounded and reasoned debate.
pa, Grays says...
3:20pm Wed 10 Sep 08
Well do let us know what other mystical atrocity we bestowed on the rest of the world if you weren't referring to either our colonial past or slavery, big brother perhaps.
Look back at the history of the world at the time and you will know that if it wasn't us then it would have been someone else. Why do you think we had 2 world wars. Do you really think it was because a fat duke got shot and that Germany just wanted a little more room to live.
We got their first because we were the first nation to industrialize, otherwise it would have been someone else, so our success wasn't simply down to empire, what came first the chicken or the egg.
You appear to have a real dislike of "English" history. this dislike of our history forms an intrinsic part of what drives the Labour party to impose on the people of this country something it doesn't want, mass immigration. They feel that as a nation we should atone for our past and that we owe a debt to the rest of the world, something you clearly agree with. You're beginning to sound like a cross between Harriet Harperson and Hazel Blears.
It is precisely these policies and actions of the Labour goivernment, born out of this desire to somehow exact revenge on the white english, mainly male, nation because of our past, that breeds the kind of response we are now beginning to get. They have bent over backwards to appease every part of the population of England, apart from white english males, who they believe it is wholly reasonable to discriminate against because the ba****ds have had it their way for too long, and that has done nothing but to breed resentment among people who consider themselves English.
You're in the minority I'm afraid, when it comes to not wanting our country to become an overcrowded unbeareable place to live.
As for Africa, keep those fingers crossed bacause they're going to need all the luck they can get. Where ever there is some free cash being handed out by the developed world, you can bet there's some nasty little despot with a secret bank account and an arms deal with some country or other waiting in the wings to take his opportunity to seize power and turn the people of said country into virtual slaves. I dare say if ebaguM treboR were to f**k off we'd find out the real truth about him. I assume you agree with him beating torturing and murdering white farmers, becasue they deserved it because of their past. And where did a large proportion of the asians kicked out of Uganda by that gentle giant African end up. Well bless my soul.
This government can keep pushing, but one thing for sure is, the harder they keep pushing the more of a reaction they are going to get. Stop discriminating against the English and stop mass immigration and I'm sure most people would get along fine. Continue with preferential treatment for immigrants of any colour or creed, continue to belittle white english people as no good losers compared to the rest of the world that's moving here, then you're in for trouble. As I said earlier and a number of times before, immigrants are here as cheap labour and are a means to an end for the labour party. That hasn't worked and now they can all go home. They've been used by the party that puports to have their interests at heart. And now the rest of us are going to pick up the tab.
This government hates this country and its people and its history. There's another loser you're backing.
Look back at the history of the world at the time and you will know that if it wasn't us then it would have been someone else. Why do you think we had 2 world wars. Do you really think it was because a fat duke got shot and that Germany just wanted a little more room to live.
We got their first because we were the first nation to industrialize, otherwise it would have been someone else, so our success wasn't simply down to empire, what came first the chicken or the egg.
You appear to have a real dislike of "English" history. this dislike of our history forms an intrinsic part of what drives the Labour party to impose on the people of this country something it doesn't want, mass immigration. They feel that as a nation we should atone for our past and that we owe a debt to the rest of the world, something you clearly agree with. You're beginning to sound like a cross between Harriet Harperson and Hazel Blears.
It is precisely these policies and actions of the Labour goivernment, born out of this desire to somehow exact revenge on the white english, mainly male, nation because of our past, that breeds the kind of response we are now beginning to get. They have bent over backwards to appease every part of the population of England, apart from white english males, who they believe it is wholly reasonable to discriminate against because the ba****ds have had it their way for too long, and that has done nothing but to breed resentment among people who consider themselves English.
You're in the minority I'm afraid, when it comes to not wanting our country to become an overcrowded unbeareable place to live.
As for Africa, keep those fingers crossed bacause they're going to need all the luck they can get. Where ever there is some free cash being handed out by the developed world, you can bet there's some nasty little despot with a secret bank account and an arms deal with some country or other waiting in the wings to take his opportunity to seize power and turn the people of said country into virtual slaves. I dare say if ebaguM treboR were to f**k off we'd find out the real truth about him. I assume you agree with him beating torturing and murdering white farmers, becasue they deserved it because of their past. And where did a large proportion of the asians kicked out of Uganda by that gentle giant African end up. Well bless my soul.
This government can keep pushing, but one thing for sure is, the harder they keep pushing the more of a reaction they are going to get. Stop discriminating against the English and stop mass immigration and I'm sure most people would get along fine. Continue with preferential treatment for immigrants of any colour or creed, continue to belittle white english people as no good losers compared to the rest of the world that's moving here, then you're in for trouble. As I said earlier and a number of times before, immigrants are here as cheap labour and are a means to an end for the labour party. That hasn't worked and now they can all go home. They've been used by the party that puports to have their interests at heart. And now the rest of us are going to pick up the tab.
This government hates this country and its people and its history. There's another loser you're backing.
The Contrarian, Purfleet says...
10:37am Thu 11 Sep 08
My God, you assume far too much. You obviously think you’ve got me pegged as some white, middle-class Liberal. I was thinking about Colonialism actually, but as I’ve already said, I don’t think that it was the unmitigating failure that some do. That said, your defence that “if we didn’t do it, somebody else would” does not even stand up to the lightest scrutiny. Maybe the same could be said of West African fraudsters!?!
For the record, I love English history. I can’t see what you could have read in my previous post which would lead you to believe that I have “a real dislike” of English history. We can learn a great deal from history. Of course history (for better or worse) defines us. I’ve seen it written that history is “nothing, if not a marker for the deeds of great men.” Of course though, history is only useful if we can identify those occasions where we might now do things differently, for only then can we be considered to have truly progressed. That’s why I don’t think it would be of any value to offer and apology regarding slavery. Don’t mistake that for a “dislike of English history”
I loved the rant about people having it in for white English men. I can’t say that I’ve seen any evidence of it, but let me go on record now as saying that I absolutely abhor racism and discrimination of any persuasion.
I didn’t say I wanted this Country to become an overcrowded, unbearable place to live. Where did you get that idea from?
You assume I agree with Robert Mugabe beating, torturing and murdering white Farmers. I find that utterly offensive. Mugabe’s land reform was a good idea. Even though I don’t share his politics, there seemed an inherent fairness in appropriating a proportion of white-owned farms for the benefit of indigenous Zimbabweans. There was a program in place whereby white farmers would train black farmers to manage the land. The problem of course was that Mugabe became inpatient and embarked on a program of evicting white farmers and giving the land the his henchmen and cronies – who did nothing with it.
I’m not a Labour voter or supporter. At the moment I’m inclined towards the English Democrats. They seem (on the face of it) to be the nationalist party that this country needs. I get the feeling that you’re a very bitter man. Maybe life didn’t give you everything you wanted; maybe you had a couple of tough breaks, who knows. You do need to take a ‘chill pill’ lest you drop dead of a heart attack. Hating takes so much effort!
For the record, I love English history. I can’t see what you could have read in my previous post which would lead you to believe that I have “a real dislike” of English history. We can learn a great deal from history. Of course history (for better or worse) defines us. I’ve seen it written that history is “nothing, if not a marker for the deeds of great men.” Of course though, history is only useful if we can identify those occasions where we might now do things differently, for only then can we be considered to have truly progressed. That’s why I don’t think it would be of any value to offer and apology regarding slavery. Don’t mistake that for a “dislike of English history”
I loved the rant about people having it in for white English men. I can’t say that I’ve seen any evidence of it, but let me go on record now as saying that I absolutely abhor racism and discrimination of any persuasion.
I didn’t say I wanted this Country to become an overcrowded, unbearable place to live. Where did you get that idea from?
You assume I agree with Robert Mugabe beating, torturing and murdering white Farmers. I find that utterly offensive. Mugabe’s land reform was a good idea. Even though I don’t share his politics, there seemed an inherent fairness in appropriating a proportion of white-owned farms for the benefit of indigenous Zimbabweans. There was a program in place whereby white farmers would train black farmers to manage the land. The problem of course was that Mugabe became inpatient and embarked on a program of evicting white farmers and giving the land the his henchmen and cronies – who did nothing with it.
I’m not a Labour voter or supporter. At the moment I’m inclined towards the English Democrats. They seem (on the face of it) to be the nationalist party that this country needs. I get the feeling that you’re a very bitter man. Maybe life didn’t give you everything you wanted; maybe you had a couple of tough breaks, who knows. You do need to take a ‘chill pill’ lest you drop dead of a heart attack. Hating takes so much effort!
pa, Grays says...
12:50pm Thu 11 Sep 08
Not at all bitter I've had a bloody good life. I'll be retired in eight years time, way before I reach 60. I don't have debts and I'm able to give my kids whatever they need. I'd say I'd had a pretty bloody good life. Thanks for the concern over my health as well but that's pretty good as too. And as for chill pills, I prefer champagne or other decent wines.
You're not a very contrary contrarian after all are you. And you started the slagging so perhaps you should take a check on your heart rate.
toodle pip
You're not a very contrary contrarian after all are you. And you started the slagging so perhaps you should take a check on your heart rate.
toodle pip
The Contrarian, Purfleet says...
1:15pm Thu 11 Sep 08
I think you'll find I am a contrairian when it coems to the majority of the views expressed here.
I haven’t slagged you off. I was just surmising what it was that has left you feeling so bitter. You’d do well to read things (just a suggestion).
I have to say, I’m more of a beer and pork scratchings man myself. You can take the boy out of Aveley……
Cheerio!
I haven’t slagged you off. I was just surmising what it was that has left you feeling so bitter. You’d do well to read things (just a suggestion).
I have to say, I’m more of a beer and pork scratchings man myself. You can take the boy out of Aveley……
Cheerio!
pa, Grays says...
9:07am Fri 12 Sep 08
Oh I do read things and once we got started on the history lessons that you stated people making comments had an astounding lack of knowledge of, you went on to suggest that I should understand Idi Amins motives. A backhand way of saying I'm a racist and would kick all foreigners out if I had the chance.
I don't hate foreigners, I just dont agree that mass immigration is the cure for the worlds ill's. I dont want to live in a country that is shrinking in size, if you believe the environmentalists, while it's population is expected to grow to 78 million.
I may be selfish in wanting the best opportunities for my kids first, that's why I don't want an artificially inflated housing market due to the masses of people that are coming here creating ever greater demand for scarce housing, another gov't policy that is now in complete tatters. That just makes life harder for my kids and my pocket.
If that's what you want then fine, you're entitled to your view, but my view is that anyone that does think that's a good idea is stark raving, certifiably bonkers.
read the letters page of the metro and you'll find out how much black people want to integrate. It isn't whitey's problem, it's the making of the gov't with their loony policies on social cohesion at the same time as allowing groups like the black police officers association and councils funding groups like TRUST. They wouldn't know cohesion if someone was to superglue their ar*es to their comfy chairs. They divide and create resentment with their policies. Harriet Harman wants to make it law that white males can be discriminated against when applying for jobs, what's that, her guide on how to win friends and influence people.
They are so biased they create the belief ammong ethnic minorities that they are in some way a special case and should have their own laws, schools and seperate communities. That is why people like me look at them in disbelief and want to shake them gently by the throat and ask tem if they really understand what their little social experiment is doing.
Can you imagine a group of white people getting away with walking around dressed like cousin it waving placards saying death to all muslims.
Can you imagine the white police officers association being allowed to get off the ground. Do you think the council will ever fund a white only support group.
I work with black people every day. My manager is black, the bloke who sits next to me is a muslim, we get along fine. Neither of them thinks mass immigration is a good idea.
THis government has given credence to every fanatic and and every person with a chip on their shoulders about the slave trade or other wrong doings by white people however long ago. They encourage them to be seperate and to believe they somehow have more rights than the majority population through their policies. That is why you have ex labour supporters like me supporting political parties like the BNP. As I've said before, the Labour party are the best recruiting advert the BNP ever had. Stop creating resentmnent and the BNP won't exist.
I don't hate foreigners, I just dont agree that mass immigration is the cure for the worlds ill's. I dont want to live in a country that is shrinking in size, if you believe the environmentalists, while it's population is expected to grow to 78 million.
I may be selfish in wanting the best opportunities for my kids first, that's why I don't want an artificially inflated housing market due to the masses of people that are coming here creating ever greater demand for scarce housing, another gov't policy that is now in complete tatters. That just makes life harder for my kids and my pocket.
If that's what you want then fine, you're entitled to your view, but my view is that anyone that does think that's a good idea is stark raving, certifiably bonkers.
read the letters page of the metro and you'll find out how much black people want to integrate. It isn't whitey's problem, it's the making of the gov't with their loony policies on social cohesion at the same time as allowing groups like the black police officers association and councils funding groups like TRUST. They wouldn't know cohesion if someone was to superglue their ar*es to their comfy chairs. They divide and create resentment with their policies. Harriet Harman wants to make it law that white males can be discriminated against when applying for jobs, what's that, her guide on how to win friends and influence people.
They are so biased they create the belief ammong ethnic minorities that they are in some way a special case and should have their own laws, schools and seperate communities. That is why people like me look at them in disbelief and want to shake them gently by the throat and ask tem if they really understand what their little social experiment is doing.
Can you imagine a group of white people getting away with walking around dressed like cousin it waving placards saying death to all muslims.
Can you imagine the white police officers association being allowed to get off the ground. Do you think the council will ever fund a white only support group.
I work with black people every day. My manager is black, the bloke who sits next to me is a muslim, we get along fine. Neither of them thinks mass immigration is a good idea.
THis government has given credence to every fanatic and and every person with a chip on their shoulders about the slave trade or other wrong doings by white people however long ago. They encourage them to be seperate and to believe they somehow have more rights than the majority population through their policies. That is why you have ex labour supporters like me supporting political parties like the BNP. As I've said before, the Labour party are the best recruiting advert the BNP ever had. Stop creating resentmnent and the BNP won't exist.
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m4rt1n, Chafford Hundred says...
12:23pm Tue 2 Sep 08
It doesn't matter where children come from, as long as they have something constructive to do, sports, arts, crafts whatever floats their boat, but to leave an entire community out of your plans is disgraceful.