Wouldn't surpise me if these were the ones who mugged my girlfriend outside morrisons back in February, & also some of the other recent attacks in & around the morrisons/High Street area

I wonder if the third attacker was also afro-caribean. Bet also they headed off to Chafford Hundred !

All these people moving in from london are bringing the capitals problems with them.

What difference would it make (other than to aprehending the muggers) what colour the third person was. Also, what's the significance of supposing that they headed off to Chafford Hundred? Griffo, who are "these people"? and what problems do you suppose they're bringing? Coming from Tilbury you should be well accustomed to the use of casual violence and theft. It was going on long before "these people" arrived.

By these people I imagine they mean the 'afro caribean' (Thats being polite 'people' coming over in their droves and causing trouble - before everyone starts bleating about how thats racist - its a fact - they are menacing and sinister and everyone including the police are too scared and powerless to stop them - no wonder the country is a laughing stock

Agree with the last post.Problems are coming from the capital,regardless of race.

The third person. If the Police are looking for three people, surely they should provide detail of the third.

There should be some correlation between this crime and others recently and I would guess these people are local.

The comment regarding Chafford Hundred is significant. It is a place I would not recommend any young person to be in when dark. It would be the first place these 'thugs' would go to hide away. So easy !!!

My guess is, again, I bet more violence/robbery etc occured on Chafford Hundred that night !!
And before anyone says, as with other places also but Chaff is certainly not what it used to be or hoped to be and is unfortunately a dangerous place due to the layout, the new residents and the visitors from the capital who come in, commit crime and then leave. I believe Thurock council did object to the layout of Chaff but was overuled.

Guaranteed, it will not get better there, despite the attempt to place PCSO's or have a greater police presence. Too much like a maze !

2008 - London Borough of Thurrock. Not good.

I can't believe what I'm reading. I'm not a pc left-wing lunatic, but I do object to the language that's used. If you mean "black people" say it. Don't use terms like "they" it does everybody a dis-service. Lets not forget that the original west indian immigrants were invited to this country and did the job our forefathers didn't want to do.

??? wrote:
I can't believe what I'm reading. I'm not a pc left-wing lunatic, but I do object to the language that's used. If you mean "black people" say it. Don't use terms like "they" it does everybody a dis-service. Lets not forget that the original west indian immigrants were invited to this country and did the job our forefathers didn't want to do.

alll very well skirting around the issue of any migrants etc being black white asian or hispanic it doesnt matter...just because the london borough councils dont want them in there area they get offered 15 - 30k to move out of london to thurrock and yes-everybody is sick of it as half or the cant bloody drive the huge 4x4's they seem to be able to afford along with the houses they have bought with the move from london grants or whatever they are..it's just l.b.c passing the buck onto some other schmuck-US !

Over the last 5 or 6 weeks the Gazette has carried at least five stories of street robberies being carried out by black teenagers, descriptions given by the victims not me. Most, if not all have been carried out on white people, one a young mother who had her baby in a pram at the time. A few months ago the Gazette ran stories of "racist" attacks against black people in the Tilbury area and almost immediately the usual rubbish about white racist thugs was trotted out by the council, MP and Police. The Police were even going to mount a special operation to ensure these attacks didn't continue.

It seems to me that attacks on black people carried out by white people are racist and should be given the utmost attention by the great and good and all those who want to defend the "rights" of people, or blacks, if you prefer ??? from Purfleet that have just arrived in this area. In the meantime if you happen to be white and on your own innocently walking down the street and get attacked by a group of black teenagers? who knows maybe we should keep quiet about it for fear of being called racist for not wanting to accept this kind of thing being brought to our streets.

There is a natural progression in this type of bnehaviour and that is to become more violent in nature and we all know where that story goes.

??? comments are strange. The word 'they' is objected to ? Why does the word racist keep popping up ?

There is a current culture of violence in black communities, as with asian communities and so on and I would hazard a guess that the London boroughs and other large cities are the worst for this. So, it is then quite natural to think, or observe, that such communities moving, with what seems to be an effort to disolve the problems, that the culture goes with it, and spreads, especially among the teens.

Thankfully,knife / gun crime is not a big problem but it is now only a matter of time !!! as Paul states.

Let's not forget that there are problems with black teenagers -gangs etc etc and associated crime. Fact. It is not a problem simply because they are black so let's forget all this racist nonsense, and all this about history of immigrants being invited.

I fully accept that proportionately more robberies are carried out by black youths and that the police should do more – (I’ve never understood the problem with stop and search for example). I also accept that more needs to be done (using more stick and less carrot) to bring the situation under control. What I try to do here is provide a voice of reason against some of the more questionable statements people have made. The fact is that the majority of black people are good, hardworking people. My neighbours have come (via London) from all over Africa. They, like me, work hard and are happily getting on with life. I do honestly believe that the authorities need to take a tougher line on parental responsibility – particularly in relation to the black community. That said, I don’t believe that tone and language used in the above posts is constructive. It’s not about skirting round the issue (I’m not the one using words like “they”) it’s about being sensitive and ensuring that the vast majority – who contribute positively – aren’t tarred with the same brush as those who don’t. The vast majority of what I’ve read seems to be the usual BNP diatribe.

ANDY wrote:

??? wrote: I can\'t believe what I\'m reading. I\'m not a pc left-wing lunatic, but I do object to the language that\'s used. If you mean \"black people\" say it. Don\'t use terms like \"they\" it does everybody a dis-service. Lets not forget that the original west indian immigrants were invited to this country and did the job our forefathers didn\'t want to do.

alll very well skirting around the issue of any migrants etc being black white asian or hispanic it doesnt matter...just because the london borough councils dont want them in there area they get offered 15 - 30k to move out of london to thurrock and yes-everybody is sick of it as half or the cant bloody drive the huge 4x4\'s they seem to be able to afford along with the houses they have bought with the move from london grants or whatever they are..it\'s just l.b.c passing the buck onto some other schmuck-US !

I never invited any west indian immigrants or any other immigrants here. And you are correct, coming from Tilbury I am well accustomed to the use of casual violence and theft, but why bring in more.

We have our own nutters and problems so why are we bringing in more problems from all round the world.

???, Purfleet ; You dont want to accept that any immigrant can do any wrong yet you say you are not a pc left-wing lunatic,

You object to the language that's used, but you dont want to give that same right to local people who object to the way their country is being formed, and they havent voted for it

Terry,

How can you say that I don’t accept that any immigrant can do no wrong? I’ve clearly stated that proportionately more robberies are (probably) carried out by young black men and that the black community and the authorities need to crack down on this. As I previously said, I’m trying to be a little more balanced (which isn’t the same as skirting round the issue) and acknowledge not all immigrants are bad. I believe that everybody has the right to free speech and I have the right to object. My objection to the language was that I felt people weren’t being clear. Using words like “they” and phrases like “these people” is not helpful. That’s skirting round the issue. If you have something to say, and you want it directed at a particular group – ethnic or otherwise – then make sure you’re clear about who you’re talking about. The whole point of these types of forums is that it allows different people, with different views, to contribute. You may not have asked the immigrants to come here, but a democratically elected government did.

??? wrote:
Terry, How can you say that I don’t accept that any immigrant can do no wrong? I’ve clearly stated that proportionately more robberies are (probably) carried out by young black men and that the black community and the authorities need to crack down on this. As I previously said, I’m trying to be a little more balanced (which isn’t the same as skirting round the issue) and acknowledge not all immigrants are bad. I believe that everybody has the right to free speech and I have the right to object. My objection to the language was that I felt people weren’t being clear. Using words like “they” and phrases like “these people” is not helpful. That’s skirting round the issue. If you have something to say, and you want it directed at a particular group – ethnic or otherwise – then make sure you’re clear about who you’re talking about. The whole point of these types of forums is that it allows different people, with different views, to contribute. You may not have asked the immigrants to come here, but a democratically elected government did.

"The vast majority of what I’ve read seems to be the usual BNP diatribe". You ostrasise a legal party, yet you push "a democratically elected government did" phase, double standards to me just like most people on the leftside of politics.


You are ok living with the black community, but you cant accept other people are not so you ostrasise them by calling them discriminatory racist fascists. Dont here people(or you) objecting to that language.

Maybe you sould ballance your own outlook befor you ostrasise other people.

Agree with Terry. Not the town i grew up in.
Third World town in a Third World Country.

BORN IN TILBURY wrote:
Agree with Terry. Not the town i grew up in. Third World town in a Third World Country.

Very sad mate, but have to agree with you. And it's going to get a lot worse.

Nonsense. I've never once ostracised the BNP. I’ve had discussions on these forums before with a chap called “Kev”(who I assume is a BNP member) and even though our politics were very different I stated that I felt that the BNP should be given fair and equal coverage. I’ve also gone on record (during the same exchange)to say that I might not agree with what some people, including the BNP, have to say, but I will defend – with my own life if necessary – their right to say it. Just because I’m not in total agreement with the posts here, doesn’t mean that I’m not entitled to put my views across. I accept everyone and form my opinions and judgements on a case-by-case basis (generally on factors other than race). For the record, my politics are right of centre (just not as far right as some). Also, it’s not possible for one man (me) to ostracise an entire political party. If your ideas were more popular, you’d enjoy more popular support. Who knows, perhaps one day you will.

??? you use the word community when you speak about black people coming to the area. In my experience of living and working in London, most black communities treat white people with suspicion and prefer to keep them on the outside. Some actively discourage contact with white people within their own community and pour scorn on those that do try there best to be part of life in this country. Therein lies the problem with what you are saying. Most black teenagers are of the belief that white people don't understand black culture and should therefore keep their noses out. No explanation has ever been given to the local Thurrock community as to why so many black people have moved here from London. No one knows how the houses became available for all of them. My son is particularly interested in that one because he can't afford a place of his own and he's lived in Thurrock all his life.

Most, but not all black people that come here will intentionally be isolationist in their attitude towards the local community, as they were in London. You must have heard the stories about how second generation blacks can't get on with new black immigrants because the new tend not to want to get on.

I've lived in Thurrock for a long time and have lots of asian friends, a community that has integrated and generally got on with local people. I'm afraid that the current influx will not be so willing. The vilolence that is currently being highlighted will be linked with what goes on in inner city areas and rightly so because no other explanation will be given by the black community or the all of a sudden ever so silent authorities. They come from London why shouldn't they be looked on as the same.

As for tarring all with the same brush, all white people in Tilbury were tarred with the same brush recently. we were treated to a wonderful story in the Gazette from someone who's name I forget. The story was by a black teenager who moved from London to Tilbury and was "surprised" to see so many white people. That said it all.

Terry,

Your wrote:

"You are ok living with the black community, but you cant accept other people are not so you ostrasise them by calling them discriminatory racist fascists. Dont here people(or you) objecting to that language."

When did I say that then?

For the record though, that is discriminatory and it is racist - look up the definition in the OED. What's slightly more perplexing is that you don't want to seem to be acknowledged as racist, when the evidence suggests otherwise. If you don't want to live in a multi-cultural community, then that's up to you. I certainly wouldn't/couldn't force you to. YOu should be able to make that choice with your head held up. If you're labelled as racist, then so be it. That's your perogative.

Let's not forget that a lot of people see nothing but negatives.
This evens goes down to the smaller things like why do we now have a red bus running through Thurrock ?

Regretfully,in general races/creeds or whatever you wish to call it do not mix very well. You end up with groups. That's why communities in places as Brixton, Bradford,West Ham even china town occur so divisions happen.

So. instead of one community that we are all used to, you get several with different values,lifestyles etc some opposing.

Anyway, let's not forget the poor lad who was attacked and that at least one of the attackers was white. Not only was he robbed in that way, it must also be frustrating that he was powerless to do anything about it as these cowards only feel big enough when in a group.

I Wonder, you say that we should be focusing on the victims here and I fully agree. What disappoints me most about this though is the diproportianate reaction to what is in the end a violent crime.

When Black people were being attacked in Tilbury, the perpertrators were described as racist thugs. We had talk of crack squads of police being set up to stamp out this sort of "anacceptable" attacks. The local authority condemned it as did our local MP.

Why not the same response now? who is being discriminatory? Is it acceptable for gangs of black teenagers to attack lone white people just because they have lived here a long time and are in the majority in the community? If it isn't then where is the condemnation from the authorities, where are the special units of police cracking down on this?

All of a sudden no one is sticking up for the rights of the majority and we are sadly left to accept that this will become an ever increasing part of our community life, why because we must protect the feelings and rights of the minority that have just arrived.

Paul wrote:
I Wonder, you say that we should be focusing on the victims here and I fully agree. What disappoints me most about this though is the diproportianate reaction to what is in the end a violent crime. When Black people were being attacked in Tilbury, the perpertrators were described as racist thugs. We had talk of crack squads of police being set up to stamp out this sort of "anacceptable" attacks. The local authority condemned it as did our local MP. Why not the same response now? who is being discriminatory? Is it acceptable for gangs of black teenagers to attack lone white people just because they have lived here a long time and are in the majority in the community? If it isn't then where is the condemnation from the authorities, where are the special units of police cracking down on this? All of a sudden no one is sticking up for the rights of the majority and we are sadly left to accept that this will become an ever increasing part of our community life, why because we must protect the feelings and rights of the minority that have just arrived.

Paul, I agree with you totally, however the sad thing is give it a few mor eyears (If that) and white people wont be the majority any longer - you only have to see the way its going now, the area will be full of 'ghettos' it wont be safe to go out for fear of beinh shot or stabbed, and the Government will be hurriedly trying to find someone to blame for it all........

Paul,

I'm not sure that people appreciate the divisions which exist even within the black community. You correctly state that 2nd beneration blacks don't always get on with black immigrants. This has as much to do with coming from different countries and it does with differing attitudes. For example, Africa is a continent and it's as likely that htose from different tribes/countries will be as suspicious of one another as say the british are of the polish - even though outwardly they may appear to be no different.

Also, you state that no explanation has been given for the large number of black people moving into Thurrock. You then go on to bemoan the fact that your son can't afford a place here.

1. Who has to explain what to whom? I thik the drivers are quite obvious. Nobody has to seek permission to live anywhere? DO you think Essex man explains to Carlos in Spain when he's buying his retirement villa. On a development exclusively British? - How that for integration?

2. The fact that your son can't afford to buy in Thurrock is his own look out. The beauty of a free market is that everyone competes on level terms. It's not like with social housing where people can be pushed up (or down) the queue. Owning a home is not a right, it's a privilege. If your son worked harder, or had a job which paid more money, he too could enjoy the benfits of home ownership. It's a harsh, but true, fact of life.

The long and the short of it is there were street robberies before the the large number of people (black and white) moved into Thurrock from London. The number of robberies has not risen at the same rate of the number of non white residents in Thurrock has increased, in fact you will probably find that the increase is minimal. This is no comfort to the victims but trying to link increase in robberies with the influx of residents from London Boroughs is like trying to link the rising sea levels with me flushing the toilet twice! It is an accepted fact that black males commit more robberies than white male that is realism not racisim. However, it doesnt mean that the more black males you have in an area the more likely you are to be robbed. If we all stopped looking for scapgoat groups for our the breakdowns in the social fabric; stopped pulling the race issue; stopped finger pointing with accusations of you are a racist, homophobe, militant etc and worked together there would be a lot less crime etc. As an aside my family and I moved from London to Tilbury in the 70's and were viewed as outsiders for a number of years. We may have been white but we werent 'Tilbs'so everytime a window got broken or there was a fight my brother and I got the blame because "well it was bound to be that lot from London as they are all trouble makers in Stepney." Ironically my brother is now retiring following nearly 25 years in the police .... so perhaps they we right!

To the person who slated Chafford Hundred, i would like to say that i have lived in the midst of Chafford for nearly 12 years and have never experienced any trouble. My sister lived in Tilbury for 2 months and experienced a hell hole. Enough said

Emm. To the Chafford resident.

1) Where did I slate Chafford ? It is a maze and the cycle paths / alleys unfortunately are bad things

2) Why liken Chaff' to Tilbury ? OK, I have a brother who lived in Newcastle. It was a hell hole.Not relevant

3) Seems to be a bit of pride coming out there. Nice place, as I am sure a lot of people would still say about Tilbury, but surely most residents will admit it ain't going the right direction. My point was made to highlight the maze of Chaff' and the problems I and others have experienced, no doubt some addressed/raised by the Chaff' com' forum ???

Living in Chaff ? Me too. You should get out more, but I would not recommend this, late at night.

Why am I responding to this ? zzzz

In any case of a crime being committed, if it is possible to give the fullest possible description of the perpetrator, including skin colour, then it should be disseminated as widely as is needed to bring the said perpetrator to justice. This is a basic commonsense proposition and it always amazes me that some anti-racists question the need to draw attention to the skin colour of the offender. I've met quite a few hard working, law abiding blacks who are sick and tired of this patronising attitude when all they want is to live in a safe community and be treated as equals.

Comments have been made comparing the reaction to the brutal robbery of the 17 year old lad in Hathaway Road and the spate of attacks on black people in Tilbury back in the summer. It has been pointed out that while the assaults in Tilbury were classed as racially motivated, the robbery in Hathaway Road is not seen as racial even though one of the assailants was described as Afro-Carribean. For the record, I feel that any assault, regardless of the motive and the racial / ethnic / cultural permutations involved between assailant and victim, is wrong and should be investigated and prosecuted with equal vigour.

The problem is that some assaults are classified as racial and others are not. Because it is perceived that a racial assault gets more attention, if an assault isn't classified as such but is seen by some as being so, then the clamour for the assault to be reclassified starts. As can be seen from the comments above and doubtless the many that will follow, this creates tensions and resentment as some people, quite justifiably it could be argued, feel that because the victim is white, they are not being fairly treated.

Scrapping the catagorisation of assaults as racially motivated or not, and treating all equally and pursuing them with considerable vigour regardless of the ethnic permutations would go some way to restoring the sense that all of us are entitled to equal protection under the law. In other words, all we are calling for is simple basic fairness.
Most reasonable people accept that there is good and bad in all ethnic groups - it is only the blinkered pc element on the left and the hardcore bigots on the extreme right who would have it otherwise. Most people want to see fairness, equality of treatment for all and the application of some commonsense.

Scrapping the catagory of racial assault is explored more fully in this piece here:

http://www.iwca.info
/cutedge/ce0003.htm

Apoligies for accessing this link being a cut and paste job...

Dave Amis
East Thurrock IWCA

it dont matter if there black or white these crimes are happening me walking home from party new years eve.and i got beat up out side my house by three white men.now iv got to have surgery on my face.and i know the three yobs who done it.no good reporting it to the police.because them idiot are back on the streets doing it to someone else within hours.

lets face it these yobs.dont care less if your an old age pensioner, young mums walking there kids.or ten year olds,there mug you beat you or worse kill you,and i cant see anything being done about it.can you

Its all very simple children, If you are happy with the country,your poll tax, petrol, Immigrant communitys ect, then vote Lobour or the Conservetive party.
If you are not, change it, vote THE British National Party.
See very easy no slagging matches, no name calling

IRON wrote:
Its all very simple children, If you are happy with the country,your poll tax, petrol, Immigrant communitys ect, then vote Lobour or the Conservetive party. If you are not, change it, vote THE British National Party. See very easy no slagging matches, no name calling

The trouble is Iron, most people are not happy but too scared to vote for a radical party like the BNP.

That will change when Britain faces the aftermath of it's own 9 11.

It is predicted by experts that militant Islamic homegrown Terrorists will aquire the technology for a rucksack nuclear bomb.

If this were to happen in Lakeside shopping centre an estimated 65% of Thurrock people will lose a loved one.

That's a hell of a lot of guilt some people will have to carry with them for the rest of their lives.

PUT PRESSURE ON THE MAIN PARTIES AND VOTE BNP, IF YOU CAN, BECOME ACTIVE. IT WON'T CHANGE THINGS OVERNIGHT BUT IT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

What policies (other than immigration) do the BNP have? Who's going to run the NHS when all of the immigrants have gone home? It won't be the kids of Thurrock; they're too busy working down at Lakeside and getting p****d at the weekend.

??? wrote:
What policies (other than immigration) do the BNP have? Who's going to run the NHS when all of the immigrants have gone home? It won't be the kids of Thurrock; they're too busy working down at Lakeside and getting p****d at the weekend.

Interesting that you claim that Immigrants run the NHS. Perhaps that explains why they are not safe anymore.

IMMIGRATION - time to say ENOUGH!

On current demographic trends, we, the native British people, will be an ethnic minority in our own country within sixty years. To ensure that this does not happen, and that the British people retain their homeland and identity, we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration, the immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants, and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question. We will abolish the ‘positive discrimination’ schemes that have made white Britons second-class citizens. We will also clamp down on the flood of ‘asylum seekers’, all of whom are either bogus or can find refuge much nearer their home countries.

EUROPE - back to British independence!

We are opposed to the Single European Currency, and support the overwhelming majority of the British people in their desire to keep the Pound and our traditional weights and measures. At the same time, we are for the best possible relationship with our European neighbours and believe that the nations of Europe should be free to trade and cooperate whenever it is mutually beneficial, though without being forced into a political and economic straitjacket - political unification. Accordingly, we stand for British withdrawal from the European Union. In place of the EU, we intend to aim towards greater national self-sufficiency, and to work to restore Britain’s family and trading ties with Australia, Canada and New Zealand, and to trade with the rest of the world as it suits us. Following our withdrawal from the EU, the BNP will use the £43 million per day net contribution Britain at present makes to the European Union to fund many far more useful projects at home.

LAW AND ORDER - crack down on crime!

The BNP will crack down on crime and restore public safety and confidence. We will free the police and courts from the politically correct straitjacket that is stopping them from doing their job properly. The liberal fixation with the ‘rights’ of criminals must be replaced by concern for the rights of victims, and the right of innocent people not to become victims. We support the re-introduction of corporal punishment for petty criminals and vandals, and the restoration of capital punishment for paedophiles, terrorists and murderers as an option for judges in cases where their guilt is proven beyond dispute, as by DNA evidence or being caught red-handed.

ECONOMY - British workers first!

Globalisation, with its export of jobs to the Third World, is bringing ruin and unemployment to British industries and the communities that depend on them. Accordingly, the BNP calls for the selective exclusion of foreign-made goods from British markets and the reduction of foreign imports. We will ensure that our manufactured goods are, wherever possible, produced in British factories, employing British workers. When this is done, unemployment in this country will be brought to an end, and secure, well-paid employment will flourish, at last getting our people back to work and ending the waste and injustice of having more than 4 million people in a hidden army of the unemployed concealed by Labour’s statistical fiddles. We further believe that British industry, commerce, land and other economic and natural assets belong in the final analysis to the British nation and people. To that end we will restore our economy and land to British ownership. We also call for preference in the job market to be given to native Britons. We will take active steps to break up the socially, economically and politically damaging monopolies now being established by the supermarket giants. Finally we will seek to give British workers a stake in the success and prosperity of the enterprises whose profits their labour creates by encouraging worker shareholder and co-operative schemes

EDUCATION - discipline, standards, achievement!

We are against the ‘trendy’ teaching methods that have made Britain one of the most poorly educated nations in Europe. We will end the practice of politically correct indoctrination in all its guises and we will restore discipline in the classroom, give authority back to teachers and put far greater emphasis on training young people in the industrial and technological skills necessary in the modern world. We will also seek to instill in our young people knowledge of and pride in the history, cultures and heritage of the native peoples of Britain.

AGRICULTURE - quality before quantity!

We see a strong, healthy agriculture sector as vital to the country. Britain’s farming industry will be encouraged to produce a much greater part of the nation’s need in food products. Priority will be switched from quantity to quality, as we move from competing in a global economy to maximum self-sufficiency for Britain. We will ensure a major shift to healthier and more sustainable organic farming. We are pledged to ensure the restoration of Britain’s once great fishing industry with the reimposition of the former exclusion zones around our coast.

HEALTH - first-class healthcare for all!

We are wholly committed to a free, fully funded National Health Service for all British citizens. We will revitalise the Health Service by boosting staff and bed numbers, slashing unnecessary bureaucracy and by addressing the root cause of low recruitment and retention - low pay. We will see to it that no money is given in foreign aid while our own hospitals are short of beds and the staff to run them. More emphasis must be placed on healthy living with greater understanding of sickness prevention through physical exercise, a healthier environment and improved diets.

TRANSPORT - time to invest!

Increased investment is needed in Britain’s public transport system to bring it up to the highest standards in the world. The fiasco of rail privatisation with different companies running services and track leading to higher fares and lower safety also needs to be resolved. Congestion of our towns and cities must be eased by the provision of greater incentives to use rail and bus transport instead of private cars. The first step is to end the crime and squalor that puts so many people off public transport. Motorists must not be made the scapegoats for government failure. Fuel tax should be cut, motorway speed limits raised, and hidden speed cameras should be banned. Far more must be done to encourage the development and use of cleaner fuels.

ENVIRONMENT - a cleaner, greener future!

Our ideal for Britain is that of a clean, beautiful country, free of pollution in all its forms. We will enforce standards to curb those practices, whether by business or the individual, which cause environmental damage. “The polluter pays to clean up the mess” must become a fact of life, not an electioneering slogan. In towns we would work to replace the brutalist modernism of 1960s-style-architec
ture with a blend of traditional local styles and materials and ensure that developments take place on a more human scale.

FOREIGN AID - time to spend our money on our own people!

We reject the idea that Britain must forever be obliged to subsidise the incompetence and corruption of Third World states by supplying them with financial aid. We will link foreign aid with our voluntary resettlement policy, whereby those nations taking significant numbers of people back to their homelands will need cash to help absorb those returning. The billions of pounds saved every year by this policy will also be reallocated to vital services in Britain.

PENSIONERS - pensioners before asylum seekers!

The conditions in which many of Britain’s old people are forced to live are a national disgrace. We are pledged to ensure that all our old folk are able to live in comfortable homes, and will restore the earnings link with pensions. Elderly people who have paid a lifetime of taxes and reared families should not have to sell their homes to pay for care.

NORTHERN IRELAND - an end to sectarianism!

Britain has shamefully allowed the terrorists in N.I. to come close to winning when the IRA could have been destroyed years ago. Government weakness has led to hundreds of deaths and given those same terrorists a share in government. We would end all attempts to force the people of Northern Ireland to accept foreign interference in their affairs and deal with terrorism - from whatever side - once and for all. No one with links to a terrorist organisation that refuses to lay down its arms should be allowed to enter government. We would abolish state-supported segregation in education. In the long run, we wish to end the conflict in Ireland by welcoming Eire as well as Ulster as equal partners in a federation of the nations of the British Isles.

DEFENCE - no more cuts!

Successive cuts in defence spending have left Britain’s armed forces perilously weak. We will boost Britain’s armed forces to ensure that they are able to deal with any emergency, and defend our homeland and our independence. We will bring our troops back from Germany and withdraw from NATO, since recent political developments make both commitments obsolete. We will close all foreign military bases on British soil, and refuse to risk British lives in meddling ‘peace-keeping’ missions in parts of the world where no British interests are at stake - a position of armed neutrality. We will also restore national service for our young with the option of civil or military service.

FOREIGN AFFAIRS - Britain’s interests first!

Britain’s foreign relations should be determined by the protection of our own national interest and not by our like or dislike of other nations’ internal politics. We would have no quarrel with any nation that does not threaten British interests. We will maintain an independent foreign policy of our own, and not a spineless subservience to the USA, the ‘international community’, or any other country.

DEMOCRACY - letting the people decide!

The British people invented modern Parliamentary democracy. Yet in recent years the British people have been denied their democratic rights. On issue after issue, the views of the majority of British people have been ignored and overridden by a Politically Correct ‘elite’ which thinks it knows best. On immigration, on Capital Punishment, on the surrender of British sovereignty to the EU and in numerous other areas, democracy has been absent as Labour, Tories and Lib-Dems conspire in election after election to offer the British people no real choice on such vital issues. The BNP exists to give the British people, that choice, and thus to restore and defend the basic democratic rights we have all been denied. We favour more democracy, not less, not just at national but at regional and local level.

Power should be devolved to the lowest level possible so that local communities can make decisions which affect them. We will remove legal curbs on freedom of speech imposed by successive Governments over the last 40 years. We will implement a Bill of Rights guaranteeing fundamental freedoms to the British people. We will ensure that ordinary British people have real democratic power over their own lives and that Government, local and national, is truly accountable to the people who elect it.


--------------------
--------------------
--------------------
--------------------

Mission Statement

The British National Party exists to secure a future for the indigenous peoples of these islands in the North Atlantic which have been our homeland for millennia. We use the term indigenous to describe the people whose ancestors were the earliest settlers here after the last great Ice Age and which have been complemented by the historic migrations from mainland Europe.

The migrations of the Celts, Anglo-Saxons, Danes, Norse and closely related kindred peoples have been, over the past few thousands years, instrumental in defining the character of our family of nations.

While we recognise the United Kingdom as a political entity, the BNP does not arrogantly seek to impose one set of Westminster dominated decisions across these nations. We embrace and cherish the native cultural diversity within the British Isles and wish to extend the concept of democracy to the lowest possible level, where those that are affected by a decision are the ones who influence and make the decision.

Political battle

The struggle to secure our future is being waged on many fronts. The need for political power is crucial to bring about our goals. Without effective political representation the majority of Britons, who are deeply concerned about the future, have no voice in the chambers where decisions are made. Increasingly numbers of voters are expressing apathy and discontent with the endless incompetence, lies,false promises and sleaze coming from the three parties that make up the Old Gang. The BNP will contest and win elections at council, parliamentary, Assembly or European level in order to achieve political power to bring about the changes needed.

Torch bearers of culture

The rich legacy of tradition, legend, myth and very real wealth of landscape and man-made structures is one of our island’s richest treasures. The men and women of the British National Party are motivated by love and admiration of the outpouring of culture, art, literature and the pattern of living through the ages that has left its mark on our very landscape. We value the folkways and customs which have been passed down through countless generations. We enthuse with pride at the marvels of architecture and engineering that have been completed on these islands since the construction of the great megaliths 7,000 years ago.

Liberties

Above and beyond our activities in the political world, we daily work with our people in their homes and communities addressing the fundamental issues of civil liberties and reverse discrimination. Increasingly our people are facing denial of service provision, failure to secure business contracts as well as poor job prospects as both reverse discrimination excludes our people from the school room, workplace and boardroom. A key role of the British National Party is to provide legal advice and support to victims of repression and those denied their fundamental civil rights.

make you right,bnp have got my vote from now on.we need a party to get these scum bags off the street black or white.more power to the police,more power to the british people,what ever colour.i want my sons and grandkids to grow up safe .be able to walk to the park without getting attacked ,outside or inside there homes.and this might be the party to change things.because the others have proofed they cant deal with the problem.to busy getting fat and rich on our misery.

Paul wrote:

??? wrote: What policies (other than immigration) do the BNP have? Who\'s going to run the NHS when all of the immigrants have gone home? It won\'t be the kids of Thurrock; they\'re too busy working down at Lakeside and getting p****d at the weekend.

Interesting that you claim that Immigrants run the NHS. Perhaps that explains why they are not safe anymore. IMMIGRATION - time to say ENOUGH! On current demographic trends, we, the native British people, will be an ethnic minority in our own country within sixty years. To ensure that this does not happen, and that the British people retain their homeland and identity, we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration, the immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants, and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question. We will abolish the ‘positive discrimination’ schemes that have made white Britons second-class citizens. We will also clamp down on the flood of ‘asylum seekers’, all of whom are either bogus or can find refuge much nearer their home countries. EUROPE - back to British independence! We are opposed to the Single European Currency, and support the overwhelming majority of the British people in their desire to keep the Pound and our traditional weights and measures. At the same time, we are for the best possible relationship with our European neighbours and believe that the nations of Europe should be free to trade and cooperate whenever it is mutually beneficial, though without being forced into a political and economic straitjacket - political unification. Accordingly, we stand for British withdrawal from the European Union. In place of the EU, we intend to aim towards greater national self-sufficiency, and to work to restore Britain’s family and trading ties with Australia, Canada and New Zealand, and to trade with the rest of the world as it suits us. Following our withdrawal from the EU, the BNP will use the £43 million per day net contribution Britain at present makes to the European Union to fund many far more useful projects at home. LAW AND ORDER - crack down on crime! The BNP will crack down on crime and restore public safety and confidence. We will free the police and courts from the politically correct straitjacket that is stopping them from doing their job properly. The liberal fixation with the ‘rights’ of criminals must be replaced by concern for the rights of victims, and the right of innocent people not to become victims. We support the re-introduction of corporal punishment for petty criminals and vandals, and the restoration of capital punishment for paedophiles, terrorists and murderers as an option for judges in cases where their guilt is proven beyond dispute, as by DNA evidence or being caught red-handed. ECONOMY - British workers first! Globalisation, with its export of jobs to the Third World, is bringing ruin and unemployment to British industries and the communities that depend on them. Accordingly, the BNP calls for the selective exclusion of foreign-made goods from British markets and the reduction of foreign imports. We will ensure that our manufactured goods are, wherever possible, produced in British factories, employing British workers. When this is done, unemployment in this country will be brought to an end, and secure, well-paid employment will flourish, at last getting our people back to work and ending the waste and injustice of having more than 4 million people in a hidden army of the unemployed concealed by Labour’s statistical fiddles. We further believe that British industry, commerce, land and other economic and natural assets belong in the final analysis to the British nation and people. To that end we will restore our economy and land to British ownership. We also call for preference in the job market to be given to native Britons. We will take active steps to break up the socially, economically and politically damaging monopolies now being established by the supermarket giants. Finally we will seek to give British workers a stake in the success and prosperity of the enterprises whose profits their labour creates by encouraging worker shareholder and co-operative schemes EDUCATION - discipline, standards, achievement! We are against the ‘trendy’ teaching methods that have made Britain one of the most poorly educated nations in Europe. We will end the practice of politically correct indoctrination in all its guises and we will restore discipline in the classroom, give authority back to teachers and put far greater emphasis on training young people in the industrial and technological skills necessary in the modern world. We will also seek to instill in our young people knowledge of and pride in the history, cultures and heritage of the native peoples of Britain. AGRICULTURE - quality before quantity! We see a strong, healthy agriculture sector as vital to the country. Britain’s farming industry will be encouraged to produce a much greater part of the nation’s need in food products. Priority will be switched from quantity to quality, as we move from competing in a global economy to maximum self-sufficiency for Britain. We will ensure a major shift to healthier and more sustainable organic farming. We are pledged to ensure the restoration of Britain’s once great fishing industry with the reimposition of the former exclusion zones around our coast. HEALTH - first-class healthcare for all! We are wholly committed to a free, fully funded National Health Service for all British citizens. We will revitalise the Health Service by boosting staff and bed numbers, slashing unnecessary bureaucracy and by addressing the root cause of low recruitment and retention - low pay. We will see to it that no money is given in foreign aid while our own hospitals are short of beds and the staff to run them. More emphasis must be placed on healthy living with greater understanding of sickness prevention through physical exercise, a healthier environment and improved diets. TRANSPORT - time to invest! Increased investment is needed in Britain’s public transport system to bring it up to the highest standards in the world. The fiasco of rail privatisation with different companies running services and track leading to higher fares and lower safety also needs to be resolved. Congestion of our towns and cities must be eased by the provision of greater incentives to use rail and bus transport instead of private cars. The first step is to end the crime and squalor that puts so many people off public transport. Motorists must not be made the scapegoats for government failure. Fuel tax should be cut, motorway speed limits raised, and hidden speed cameras should be banned. Far more must be done to encourage the development and use of cleaner fuels. ENVIRONMENT - a cleaner, greener future! Our ideal for Britain is that of a clean, beautiful country, free of pollution in all its forms. We will enforce standards to curb those practices, whether by business or the individual, which cause environmental damage. “The polluter pays to clean up the mess” must become a fact of life, not an electioneering slogan. In towns we would work to replace the brutalist modernism of 1960s-style-architec ture with a blend of traditional local styles and materials and ensure that developments take place on a more human scale. FOREIGN AID - time to spend our money on our own people! We reject the idea that Britain must forever be obliged to subsidise the incompetence and corruption of Third World states by supplying them with financial aid. We will link foreign aid with our voluntary resettlement policy, whereby those nations taking significant numbers of people back to their homelands will need cash to help absorb those returning. The billions of pounds saved every year by this policy will also be reallocated to vital services in Britain. PENSIONERS - pensioners before asylum seekers! The conditions in which many of Britain’s old people are forced to live are a national disgrace. We are pledged to ensure that all our old folk are able to live in comfortable homes, and will restore the earnings link with pensions. Elderly people who have paid a lifetime of taxes and reared families should not have to sell their homes to pay for care. NORTHERN IRELAND - an end to sectarianism! Britain has shamefully allowed the terrorists in N.I. to come close to winning when the IRA could have been destroyed years ago. Government weakness has led to hundreds of deaths and given those same terrorists a share in government. We would end all attempts to force the people of Northern Ireland to accept foreign interference in their affairs and deal with terrorism - from whatever side - once and for all. No one with links to a terrorist organisation that refuses to lay down its arms should be allowed to enter government. We would abolish state-supported segregation in education. In the long run, we wish to end the conflict in Ireland by welcoming Eire as well as Ulster as equal partners in a federation of the nations of the British Isles. DEFENCE - no more cuts! Successive cuts in defence spending have left Britain’s armed forces perilously weak. We will boost Britain’s armed forces to ensure that they are able to deal with any emergency, and defend our homeland and our independence. We will bring our troops back from Germany and withdraw from NATO, since recent political developments make both commitments obsolete. We will close all foreign military bases on British soil, and refuse to risk British lives in meddling ‘peace-keeping’ missions in parts of the world where no British interests are at stake - a position of armed neutrality. We will also restore national service for our young with the option of civil or military service. FOREIGN AFFAIRS - Britain’s interests first! Britain’s foreign relations should be determined by the protection of our own national interest and not by our like or dislike of other nations’ internal politics. We would have no quarrel with any nation that does not threaten British interests. We will maintain an independent foreign policy of our own, and not a spineless subservience to the USA, the ‘international community’, or any other country. DEMOCRACY - letting the people decide! The British people invented modern Parliamentary democracy. Yet in recent years the British people have been denied their democratic rights. On issue after issue, the views of the majority of British people have been ignored and overridden by a Politically Correct ‘elite’ which thinks it knows best. On immigration, on Capital Punishment, on the surrender of British sovereignty to the EU and in numerous other areas, democracy has been absent as Labour, Tories and Lib-Dems conspire in election after election to offer the British people no real choice on such vital issues. The BNP exists to give the British people, that choice, and thus to restore and defend the basic democratic rights we have all been denied. We favour more democracy, not less, not just at national but at regional and local level. Power should be devolved to the lowest level possible so that local communities can make decisions which affect them. We will remove legal curbs on freedom of speech imposed by successive Governments over the last 40 years. We will implement a Bill of Rights guaranteeing fundamental freedoms to the British people. We will ensure that ordinary British people have real democratic power over their own lives and that Government, local and national, is truly accountable to the people who elect it. -------------------- -------------------- -------------------- -------------------- Mission Statement The British National Party exists to secure a future for the indigenous peoples of these islands in the North Atlantic which have been our homeland for millennia. We use the term indigenous to describe the people whose ancestors were the earliest settlers here after the last great Ice Age and which have been complemented by the historic migrations from mainland Europe. The migrations of the Celts, Anglo-Saxons, Danes, Norse and closely related kindred peoples have been, over the past few thousands years, instrumental in defining the character of our family of nations. While we recognise the United Kingdom as a political entity, the BNP does not arrogantly seek to impose one set of Westminster dominated decisions across these nations. We embrace and cherish the native cultural diversity within the British Isles and wish to extend the concept of democracy to the lowest possible level, where those that are affected by a decision are the ones who influence and make the decision. Political battle The struggle to secure our future is being waged on many fronts. The need for political power is crucial to bring about our goals. Without effective political representation the majority of Britons, who are deeply concerned about the future, have no voice in the chambers where decisions are made. Increasingly numbers of voters are expressing apathy and discontent with the endless incompetence, lies,false promises and sleaze coming from the three parties that make up the Old Gang. The BNP will contest and win elections at council, parliamentary, Assembly or European level in order to achieve political power to bring about the changes needed. Torch bearers of culture The rich legacy of tradition, legend, myth and very real wealth of landscape and man-made structures is one of our island’s richest treasures. The men and women of the British National Party are motivated by love and admiration of the outpouring of culture, art, literature and the pattern of living through the ages that has left its mark on our very landscape. We value the folkways and customs which have been passed down through countless generations. We enthuse with pride at the marvels of architecture and engineering that have been completed on these islands since the construction of the great megaliths 7,000 years ago. Liberties Above and beyond our activities in the political world, we daily work with our people in their homes and communities addressing the fundamental issues of civil liberties and reverse discrimination. Increasingly our people are facing denial of service provision, failure to secure business contracts as well as poor job prospects as both reverse discrimination excludes our people from the school room, workplace and boardroom. A key role of the British National Party is to provide legal advice and support to victims of repression and those denied their fundamental civil rights.

Well said paul. Killed off your one policy party theory mr ???

It's clear that most of the people on here (and in the BNP) don't know the difference between ideology and policy. Doubtless some of the ideas will be popular, but most are absolute nonsense. The very idea that so-called "indigenous" people get prefernce with regards to jobs is ridiculous. I'm happy to compete with immigrants for jobs. I work in an industry where ethnic minorities are drastically over-represented. The fact remains that my firm employs those that have the requisite skills. It's obvious that we don't produce enough "home-grown" talent to prevent my firm looking overseas. The idea that you'd seek to ban the import of certain goods, stinks of protectionism. What would you suppose we do when other nations decide not to import goods from the UK? The fact is that we now operate in a "knowledge economy" trying to compete with 2nd and 3rd world countries who have access to cheap labour is futile, we need to do all we can to attract the best talent we can (from around the world) and begin to develop that capabilty "in house." I find it mildly amusing that you deride the "modern teaching methods" as it seems to me (from reading some of the posts) that the more traditional methods leave much to be desired. Also, who will meet the costs of repatriating those immigrants, and what do you propose to do with the second and third generations (of immigrants) who don't want to "go back"? I have never ever been as grateful for the middle classes as I am now. Thankfully most can see the through the rhetoric. The BNP will continue to enjoy limited success in places like Barking, but as people realise that you can't even run a council, they'll be less inclined to trust you to run the country.

When the British National Party take control of their first Council, which will probably be Dagenham & Barking in 2010, the British people will see what it is possible to achieve electing a Nationalist Council.

And by the way Mr ???, a little bird tells me that you are in fact Georgette Polley, ex Tory Councillor for Purfleet & West Thurrock.

Thinking of making a comeback are we?

Your little bird is wrong I'm afraid. Keep trying though. Everything I've written on this post (and others - see Mr. Speight's blog) about myslef is correct. I don't know what Georgette does for a living, or whether or not she has kids (I do) but we're most definitely not the same person.

You're right, we will see what the BNP can do. I've always been in favour of a nationalist party, but not one that determines nationality by skin colour. Look at the Scots and the Welsh, they unite against the English. Their national parties are open to all. That's how it should be.

By the way, look at the demographic of the areas where the BNP do enjoy success:

Barking
Burnley
Purfleet (Almost)

It's clear that you appeal to peoples' base instincts. I should think that income, literacy and mortality levels are lower in those places when set against the national average.

Am I being Racist?

Operation White Vote is a non-party political campaign, supported by a broad coalition of mainly White organisations. Our main objectives are:

to urge White people to register to vote;
to enable the White community to claim its place in British democracy;
to demonstrate a collective community potential that could significantly influence the outcome in many seats at the General Election;
to confront politicians with the reality of what it means to be White in Britain; to force them to address the inequality of opportunity faced by White people;
to encourage them to recognise our unique perspective and positively promote the cultural diversity of British society in the best interests of society as a whole.

No, you're not being racist. Certain elements are discriminatory, but as similar projects doubtless exist within the "ethnic communities" I don't think that anybody could have too much complaint. I'm against such initiatives (by any particular community, gender, etc.) and think that everybody should be encouraged to participate in the electoral process.

Also, going back to what you said earlier about 2010 and people being made aware of what a nationalist party can achieve at a local level. Anyone with even the slightest understanding of how local government is financed will tell you that the majority of cash which any council receives comes from the government. I would expect (if you were elected) that any settlement you'd receive would be "less than generous" not to mention the fact that a significant proportion of the council's workforce are the very pepole you'd want to "send home" and even the white staff are likely to be left of centre. Good Luck with that.

??? wrote:
Your little bird is wrong I'm afraid. Keep trying though. Everything I've written on this post (and others - see Mr. Speight's blog) about myslef is correct. I don't know what Georgette does for a living, or whether or not she has kids (I do) but we're most definitely not the same person. You're right, we will see what the BNP can do. I've always been in favour of a nationalist party, but not one that determines nationality by skin colour. Look at the Scots and the Welsh, they unite against the English. Their national parties are open to all. That's how it should be. By the way, look at the demographic of the areas where the BNP do enjoy success: Barking Burnley Purfleet (Almost) It's clear that you appeal to peoples' base instincts. I should think that income, literacy and mortality levels are lower in those places when set against the national average.

Here wego again Mr ???. You ostrasise the British National Party as in your own words "What policies (other than immigration) do the BNP have?". Paul gave you a long list, what do you do but change the goal posts, just like all the mainstream partys. Being incorrect, but not being man enough to admit it, you changed it to ideology not policy. Is it only policy when the Conservetive party think of it as in the debait of Tory councillor Amanda Arnold who has called for an urgent debate on immigration. when the British National Party called for debait, its racist ideology, Conservetive party call for a debate on immigration, its a policy builder.

I just think you will change the goal posts as and when it suites you. You dont care about people, but playing the politics game. You Tory councillors in cogneato keep banging on about "knowledge economy""stinks of protectionism", never about people and how all this effects their lives.

I think your the sort of person who will only accept anything is correct if you have said it,even if you have told me the day befor i was incorrect. You will move it about to enhance your own end.You are a person of double standards.You champion the eradication of skin colour in politics, but then you insignificant people who vote British National Party that they only do so because they have, and i will put your words in " lower income, literacy and mortality levels in those places when set against the national average". Your calling anyone who votes British National Party of low intelligence, you dont know these people, who are you to put them down. Anyone out there thinks this man is realy on anyones side but his own.

Sorry ???. I dont think i can ever take you seriously again,

Obviously when we take over the council the positions within it will be reviewed.

We want the right people for the right jobs based on ability and not race,faith or gender.

If these councils are employing illegal immigrants then yes we favour returning them back to their country of origin and if anybody does not like that then they know where the door is.

Strong, tough decisions have to be made to turn this country around. I would rather be called names and criticised than face the inevitable nuclear nightmare that faces this country.

The Torys talk the talk but the BNP walk the walk.

paul wrote:
Obviously when we take over the council the positions within it will be reviewed. We want the right people for the right jobs based on ability and not race,faith or gender. If these councils are employing illegal immigrants then yes we favour returning them back to their country of origin and if anybody does not like that then they know where the door is. Strong, tough decisions have to be made to turn this country around. I would rather be called names and criticised than face the inevitable nuclear nightmare that faces this country. The Torys talk the talk but the BNP walk the walk.

Paul. I am very alarmed for my family here.What do you mean by "Inevitable nuclear nightmare that faces this country".

Iron,

I’ll deal with each of the points you make in the order which you made them.

1. I’ll state again, it’s not possible for one person alone to ostracise a political party. I didn’t move the goalposts. I think that the conservatives have (recently) been lite on policy. I think that’s starting to change now. Cutting and pasting (presumably) from a website does not constitute policy. Given the radical nature of some of the ideas proposed, it would be helpful to give some idea as to the mechanisms that would be used and how it would be paid for.

2. I’m not a Tory councillor. It’s not difficult to see how macro-economic factors affect the day to day lives of individual people. Anybody serious about politics has to have an understanding of how the factors affect everyday people. If you want to carry on going through life thinking that globalisation is something that everyone else has to worry about, then feel free to do so. Look at the regrettable but inevitable decline of manufacturing in this country. We have to find new ways of competing in order to provide quality jobs. That has a VERY real affect on people.

3. Your third paragraph was the most perplexing. I will go on record now as saying that I’m not always correct. I try to be as informed as possible. I am not a person of double standards. I’m sure my posts are remarkably consistent. I don’t know what it means to “insignificant” people who vote BNP, but let me say this. People are free to vote BNP if they so wish. I did not say that people only vote BNP because they are illiterate, low earners, etc. I merely observed that BNP tend to do well in areas where those indicators are present. I never once said that anyone who votes BNP is of low intelligence. You’re right, I don’t know these people, and I haven’t put them down. Get your facts straight!

Paul,

I’d be in favour of returning illegal immigrants that are employed anywhere. I’d be interested to know what you plan to do with the ethnic minorities that are employed legally and don’t want to go anywhere. The law would prevent you from simply sacking them, or acting in any way that would prejudice their interests. This goes back to my point about the difference between ideology and policy. The mechanics of such an idea really need to be thought through.

stan wrote:

paul wrote: Obviously when we take over the council the positions within it will be reviewed. We want the right people for the right jobs based on ability and not race,faith or gender. If these councils are employing illegal immigrants then yes we favour returning them back to their country of origin and if anybody does not like that then they know where the door is. Strong, tough decisions have to be made to turn this country around. I would rather be called names and criticised than face the inevitable nuclear nightmare that faces this country. The Torys talk the talk but the BNP walk the walk.

Paul. I am very alarmed for my family here.What do you mean by "Inevitable nuclear nightmare that faces this country".

I refer to my earlier post.

It is predicted by experts that militant Islamic homegrown Terrorists will aquire the technology for a rucksack nuclear bomb.

If this were to happen in Lakeside shopping centre an estimated 65% of Thurrock people will lose a loved one.

Also Thurrock would be destroyed and uninhabitable for hundreds of years.

We have to do the right thing now for our children and their children.

Everybody has to wake up if they want to survive.

Being burnt alive is not pleasant either.

That seems unlikely to me. I'm not an expert, but nuclear capability is not easy to acquire - for coutries, let alone individuals. Nobody doubts that the capacity for some sort of chemical device exists, but nuclear weaponry is an altogether different kettle of fish.

With regards to Thurrock being unihabitable.....eve
ry (mushroom) cloud....

Anyway, a nuclear bomb would probably represent a marked improvement for most parts of the borough.

On a serious note, we're right to take any threat seriously, but I've not heard that extremists have (or are likely to have) nuclear capability any time soon. Of course I stand to be corrected.

I'm not suggesting we sit back and do nothing, and I accept that the Muslim community could/should do more - it's time for the "silent peaceful majority" to make their voices heard.

In yet another astonishing example of how Labour goes out of its way to use taxpayers’ money to cater for minority groups at the expense of the indigenous majority, the government has announced that it is to promote 20 “black national role models” aimed at persuading black youths that they can succeed in Britain, and do not have to be obsessed by a culture built predominantly round rap stars and sports icons.

Hazel Blears, the communities secretary, announced that she has asked four prominent black people to draw up the names of the role models. The quartet will then appoint 20 national role models who will be drawn from business and the professions.

Blears said: “There will always be the rap stars and the bling, but I think you can cut through it.” She believed figures from business and the professions could counter the celebrity and glamour culture of rappers and sports stars.

She said that the idea had come from the black community. Research shows that in the absence of positive role models in the home, children seek their models from the street, the media or fantasy.

Blears will also announce plans to try to involve more absent black fathers in their children’s schooling. She said the black community had itself recognised that the disproportionate absence of fathers in the home had been a contributory factor in their relative failure at school.

Her proposals are a response to the five recommendations from the Reach group, which called for a concerted effort - particularly from the black community - to trigger a shift in the aspirations of this group of young men.

She said the role models would visit youth clubs, offenders’ institutions and schools, as well as appear on TV to show that young black people can succeed.

The Reach group made clear that too often the role models for young black boys and young men are celebrities and rappers, who can glamourise crime, gangs and guns, and that role models are too often narrowly focused with not enough aspiration for the professions such as law and medicine.

We have in this country a “Miss Black Britain” competition. Would a “Miss White Britain” competition even be allowed by the authorities, or would it be closed down because it would be “racist?”

??? wrote:
That seems unlikely to me. I\'m not an expert, but nuclear capability is not easy to acquire - for coutries, let alone individuals. Nobody doubts that the capacity for some sort of chemical device exists, but nuclear weaponry is an altogether different kettle of fish. With regards to Thurrock being unihabitable.....eve ry (mushroom) cloud.... Anyway, a nuclear bomb would probably represent a marked improvement for most parts of the borough. On a serious note, we\'re right to take any threat seriously, but I\'ve not heard that extremists have (or are likely to have) nuclear capability any time soon. Of course I stand to be corrected. I\'m not suggesting we sit back and do nothing, and I accept that the Muslim community could/should do more - it\'s time for the \"silent peaceful majority\" to make their voices heard.

"Anyway, a nuclear bomb would probably represent a marked improvement for most parts of the borough."

The above comments coming from a top Tory supporter says it all.

I think it's ridiculous. This (assuming the reports are accurate) is all well intentioned, but only serves to feed the BNP and further highlight differences that exist. It's Labour's welfare initiatives that have allowed too many (black and white) to exist in the way they do. I think that Miss Black Britain should be banned and would oppose the establishment of a Miss White Britain. We need to do something about the lack of positive role models (within the community generally) - especially given the present culture of celebrity we currently live in. Also, it's appropriate that we target some of these initiatives (to a degree) however, the sooner the black community realise that it suits Labour to have them in this poverty trap (the same could be siad of Thurrock too) the sooner they might be minded to help themselves as we 9as thurrock residents) should. Everywhere I look around Thurrock I see vandalism and graffiti. Gordon Brown tells us that we need migrant workers because (among other things) they keep wage inflationary pressure low. I would be inclined to scrap the Job Seeker's allowance and pay everybody who wanted to, £20 per day to pick up litter, cut back hedges, remove chewing gum, graffiti, etc. Those that chose not to, wouldn't get anything. The £20 would be paid at the end of each day. People would soon realise that they'd get more money by working themselves - thus ending this "something for nothing" culture. I the event that the work dried up, I'd pay them to simply stand in a field. See how easy it is then to moonlight.

A "Top Tory Supporter"???

It's typical of the BNP that you'd seek to highlight the one comment which seeks to bring a more light-hearted tone to the debate. The very next part says..."on a more serious note"

That said, "and on reflection" I stand by that comment. There are some parts of Thurrock that could well do with being razed to the ground. I grant you, a nuclear bomb might be a "tad indiscriminate" but the sentiment stands.

??? wrote:
A \"Top Tory Supporter\"??? It\'s typical of the BNP that you\'d seek to highlight the one comment which seeks to bring a more light-hearted tone to the debate. The very next part says...\"on a more serious note\" That said, \"and on reflection\" I stand by that comment. There are some parts of Thurrock that could well do with being razed to the ground. I grant you, a nuclear bomb might be a \"tad indiscriminate\" but the sentiment stands.

The trouble with you Tories is, all you do is joke.

"It's typical of the BNP that you'd seek to highlight the one comment which seeks to bring a more light-hearted tone to the debate. The very next part says..."on a more serious note"

Above is another lie. They really do think that the working class are thick.


You also said "With regards to Thurrock being unihabitable.....eve


ry (mushroom) cloud...."
has a silver lining does it. Are you going to have the guts to point out what Thurrock wards you think are worthy of being wiped out?

I doubt it, especially when there is an election in May.

I’m not a Tory Councillor, nor am I seeking election. These views are my own and I DO NOT MAKE THEM ON BEHALF OF ANY POLITICAL PARTY.

I didn’t say that the working class are thick. For the record, I consider myself to be working class. I was (I’m proud to say) born and raised on a council estate.

Just thinking off the top of my head, there are certain parts of Grays, Tilbury, West Thurrock, Chadwell and Purfleet that would all “benefit” from the attention of a bulldozer. This isn’t (or needn’t be) about class, it’s about identifying those areas where the built environment is of such poor quality that it has a detrimental impact on the Borough’s residents. Given the industrial legacy that Thurrock’s faced with, it’s entirely appropriate to want to “start again” in some areas. Also, it’s widely acknowledged that the post-war utopian ideals that architects held during the 60’s and 70’s have had a negative impact when we look at the outcomes. All over the country we’ve been undoing those mistakes with the help of explosives and bulldozers. Nobody could seriously suggest that there aren’t worthy candidates (for demolition) in Thurrock. For the avoidance of doubt I’d propose that the buildings/sites be emptied prior to the commencement of demolition.

??? wrote:
I’m not a Tory Councillor, nor am I seeking election. These views are my own and I DO NOT MAKE THEM ON BEHALF OF ANY POLITICAL PARTY. I didn’t say that the working class are thick. For the record, I consider myself to be working class. I was (I’m proud to say) born and raised on a council estate. Just thinking off the top of my head, there are certain parts of Grays, Tilbury, West Thurrock, Chadwell and Purfleet that would all “benefit” from the attention of a bulldozer. This isn’t (or needn’t be) about class, it’s about identifying those areas where the built environment is of such poor quality that it has a detrimental impact on the Borough’s residents. Given the industrial legacy that Thurrock’s faced with, it’s entirely appropriate to want to “start again” in some areas. Also, it’s widely acknowledged that the post-war utopian ideals that architects held during the 60’s and 70’s have had a negative impact when we look at the outcomes. All over the country we’ve been undoing those mistakes with the help of explosives and bulldozers. Nobody could seriously suggest that there aren’t worthy candidates (for demolition) in Thurrock. For the avoidance of doubt I’d propose that the buildings/sites be emptied prior to the commencement of demolition.

You are without doubt, politically influenced and in some capacity actively involved with the Thurrock Conservative Party as your post below confirms.

Like fellow comment maker Iron of Tilbury I too cannot take you seriously. You dont make jokes about circumstances that would lead to children and babies being burnt alive, it's just not funny.

I guess it won't be long before many Tory activists come on here and start to disassociate themselves from you but for now I shall stand on the sidelines and just watch.

Here are the comments you made on the Editors Blog.

Posted by: ??? , Purfleet at 1:31pm on Thu 6 Dec 07


"I couldn't agree more with Mr. Speight. It is unfortunate that the electorate has, in this media-driven age, found itself giving more credence to appearance and soundbites than it does to real ideas and substance. Any country only gets the governement they deserve. Never has that held more true than it does today. I think histroy will prove that IDS and William Hague are two of the most competenet politicians of our time. Rather than celebrate them, we banished them into the political widerness - at a huge cost to the Tory party and the Country. Also, I do get frustrated when people blame Maggie Thatcher for everything. Arguably, everything positive about this country is as a result of difficult decisions that she took 20-30 years ago. The negative things (to my mind) seem to be as a result of more recent policies. Remember the uproar about the Poll Tax? Take a look at your council tax bills now. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that the Poll Tax was a good idea; however, it was an example of a conviction politician taking a course of action which they believed to be in the best interests of the country. Such decisions (like TB taking us to war) are never popular. I could (such is my arrogance),given an afternoon off work, put this country back where it needs to be. Unfortunately, that would mean difficult decisions that some would find most uncomfortable. All I can hope for is that David Cameron will make sure that the talents within the Conservative party don't go to waste."

I am politically influenced, and I am right of centre (which means I’m not Labour) That does not however mean that I am Tory. I AM NOT INVOLVED WITH THE THRUROCK CONSERVATIVES or the party generally for that matter – so there’s no need for anyone to disassociate themselves with me, because I am categorically not associating myself with anyone. It’s typical of the BNP that you’d jump to the conclusions you have, without really considering the evidence. It is possible to recognise talent within people, without necessarily being in the same political party as them – the late Robin Cook would be an example from within the Labour Party. If the Tory’s win the next general election, I would look to the Labour Party to hold them to account by mounting an effective opposition, that’s a fundamental part of democracy. You’ll forgive me if I don’t lose any sleep because your good self and Iron aren’t taking me seriously. Consider how desperate you seem to underline that I was making light of a “possible (but unlikely) scenario” that would see harm caused to people. The fact that you’re trying to discredit me as someone who jokes about children and babies being burned alive is scandalous. I’ve already stated that I do not believe that the capability exists for the sort of carnage that you’re trying to scare people with, therefore, I reserve the right to dismiss it in as light-hearted fashion as I see fit. I admit to being “pro-Conservative” but that’s not really surprising considering that I’ve confessed to being “right of centre.” However, I feel I have to state again (as it obviously isn’t getting through) I’m not a member of the Conservative party and have no mandate to speak on their behalf. Well done though, not for the first time you've managed to ignore the more salient points I made.

??? wrote:
I am politically influenced, and I am right of centre (which means I’m not Labour) That does not however mean that I am Tory. I AM NOT INVOLVED WITH THE THRUROCK CONSERVATIVES or the party generally for that matter – so there’s no need for anyone to disassociate themselves with me, because I am categorically not associating myself with anyone. It’s typical of the BNP that you’d jump to the conclusions you have, without really considering the evidence. It is possible to recognise talent within people, without necessarily being in the same political party as them – the late Robin Cook would be an example from within the Labour Party. If the Tory’s win the next general election, I would look to the Labour Party to hold them to account by mounting an effective opposition, that’s a fundamental part of democracy. You’ll forgive me if I don’t lose any sleep because your good self and Iron aren’t taking me seriously. Consider how desperate you seem to underline that I was making light of a “possible (but unlikely) scenario” that would see harm caused to people. The fact that you’re trying to discredit me as someone who jokes about children and babies being burned alive is scandalous. I’ve already stated that I do not believe that the capability exists for the sort of carnage that you’re trying to scare people with, therefore, I reserve the right to dismiss it in as light-hearted fashion as I see fit. I admit to being “pro-Conservative” but that’s not really surprising considering that I’ve confessed to being “right of centre.” However, I feel I have to state again (as it obviously isn’t getting through) I’m not a member of the Conservative party and have no mandate to speak on their behalf. Well done though, not for the first time you've managed to ignore the more salient points I made.

Not only do Paul Thurrock. and myself or anyone else not take you seriously , you cant realy take yourself seriously anymore.You have tied yourself into so many knots.I bet the Conservetive party would love all non Tories like you to give them such a glowing tastament.Everyone can see through your rhetoric, its a joke.

I need you to explain where I've tied myself in knots? My posts have been consistent. It's typical that you'd take this line as it's obvious to anyone with half an ounce of common sense that your ideas don't stand up to even the lightest scrutiny. I will repeat, I'm not losing sleep over the fact that the BNP don't take me seriously. Anyone that seeks validation from the BNP is in serious trouble. I'm sorry Iron, but you are a bit of a joke. I didn't really want to resort to personal slurs but your views are unbelieveably ignorant and to add insult to injury, you're barely literate. We all make typing errors but I'd be embarrassed if I were you. I did you the courtesy of addressing each of the points you raised (11:14 today) you tell me that I'm tying myself in knots, but have been unable (or unwilling) to tell me where! Paul says he'll stand on the sidelines and watch as the Tory's (needlessly) disassociate themselves from me. AS a BNP member, you're probably well accustomed to such a position.

Can someone explain how comments on some poor lad getting mugged in Grays has expanded into a personal slanging match between Tory and BNP supporters? Or how reporting that one of the offenders is black means someone is going to nuke Lakeside? In the name of that is good and true listen to yourselves for a minute! Muggings have been happening all over the world since the beginning of time when someone had more than someone else.It's bad but doesn't mean it will lead to burning babies to death and laying waste to whole tracts of housing. Turning this round into a political ping pong match covering subjects irrelevant to the story serves no purpose at all.

If you read the posts, I think it’s quite clear how the thread expanded/developed. I for one will not stand idly by while the BNP propagate the nonsense that they have on this site. It’s important that they (the BNP) know that their views won’t go unchallenged. I do not purport to speak for anyone other than myself and I stand by all of the comments that I’ve made. It is regrettable that the thread went off on a tangent, but the views expressed are worthy of further discussion, particularly given the current climate. A simple “listen to yourselves!” simply will not do. I do acknowledge however that things got a little more personal than they ought to have. I apologise for my previous post in which I needlessly attacked the literacy levels of one of the other contributors. I will state now that it was as a result of frustration, rather than any intention to cause embarrassment to anyone and I accept that it says more about me than it does them.

I would however like to point out that as soon as you “racialise” an issue (as was done at the beginning of these comments) you open up a whole other can of worms. That they might not be directly related to the initial story does not (to my mind) render them any less worthy of debate. I for one am grateful to the Gazette for providing a forum in which any matters can be debated.

Jason wrote:
Can someone explain how comments on some poor lad getting mugged in Grays has expanded into a personal slanging match between Tory and BNP supporters? Or how reporting that one of the offenders is black means someone is going to nuke Lakeside? In the name of that is good and true listen to yourselves for a minute! Muggings have been happening all over the world since the beginning of time when someone had more than someone else.It's bad but doesn't mean it will lead to burning babies to death and laying waste to whole tracts of housing. Turning this round into a political ping pong match covering subjects irrelevant to the story serves no purpose at all.

Here is the instigator who changed this topic into a political slanging match with the comments that started it.

And by the way he lost.


Posted by: ???, Purfleet on 10:00am Fri 4 Jan 08

I fully accept that proportionately more robberies are carried out by black youths and that the police should do more – (I’ve never understood the problem with stop and search for example). I also accept that more needs to be done (using more stick and less carrot) to bring the situation under control. What I try to do here is provide a voice of reason against some of the more questionable statements people have made. The fact is that the majority of black people are good, hardworking people. My neighbours have come (via London) from all over Africa. They, like me, work hard and are happily getting on with life. I do honestly believe that the authorities need to take a tougher line on parental responsibility – particularly in relation to the black community. That said, I don’t believe that tone and language used in the above posts is constructive. It’s not about skirting round the issue (I’m not the one using words like “they”) it’s about being sensitive and ensuring that the vast majority – who contribute positively – aren’t tarred with the same brush as those who don’t. The vast majority of what I’ve read seems to be the usual BNP diatribe.

Paul,

You’ve acted like a child……’he started it’….”and by the way he lost” - Grow up.

The last comment I made (which you helpfully highlighted in bold) was made not knowing that the contributors were BNP Members/supporters. As it happens, I was proved right. I was merely pointing out that the views up until that point were typical of the BNP. You (and others) have been at pains to connect me with the Conservative party, despite my saying that I AM NOT A MEMBER OF ANY POLITICAL PARTY and that I do not have any mandate to speak on anyone’s behalf. I have voted Tory in the past – and probably will do in future; however, that no more gives me the right to “represent” them, than it would give some of the Asians (who reportedly voted BNP in Barking) the right to represent the BNP, so the charge of (party) political ping-pong, just won’t stick I’m afraid. I wasn’t the one who racialised the issue. Lastly, I will not be “reprimanded” by anyone. I reserve the right (within the law) to make my views known and to challenge the views of others, that’s what free-speech in a free-country means.

Paul wrote:

stan wrote:

paul wrote: Obviously when we take over the council the positions within it will be reviewed. We want the right people for the right jobs based on ability and not race,faith or gender. If these councils are employing illegal immigrants then yes we favour returning them back to their country of origin and if anybody does not like that then they know where the door is. Strong, tough decisions have to be made to turn this country around. I would rather be called names and criticised than face the inevitable nuclear nightmare that faces this country. The Torys talk the talk but the BNP walk the walk.

Paul. I am very alarmed for my family here.What do you mean by "Inevitable nuclear nightmare that faces this country".

I refer to my earlier post. It is predicted by experts that militant Islamic homegrown Terrorists will aquire the technology for a rucksack nuclear bomb. If this were to happen in Lakeside shopping centre an estimated 65% of Thurrock people will lose a loved one. Also Thurrock would be destroyed and uninhabitable for hundreds of years. We have to do the right thing now for our children and their children. Everybody has to wake up if they want to survive. Being burnt alive is not pleasant either.

Paul. Sorry for the late reply. I have talked to friends and beleive that I have been naive. Why are the Government not doing more to protect people, and their familys. I aways beleived that the London bombs were a long way away. It seems I was wrong, they are a lot closer than I realized. Bluewater may also be a target. Still struggling to understand why we are not told more about this and more is not being done to prevent it. I must now reconsider my familys position for their safty.


To ???. You should be ashamed of yourself. You call people stupid, that sort of language is not acceptable, but then you denied it, then appoligised for it.My maine anger is that you make light and fun of a posible bomb going off. These are our kids and familys who could suffer horribly,and the best you can do is poke fun. If this is the attitude of a Tory councillor, I may have to now reconsider voting the Conservetive party at the next elections

Stan,

I haven’t called anyone stupid. I made a comment about somebody being “barely literate” which, upon reflection, I apologised for. If you read my previous post (and I’m getting tired of repeating myself) I reserve the right to make light of a situation if I don’t believe that such a scenario is likely. I do not doubt that the capability for some form of attack exists (July 7th confirmed this) I just do not believe that it’s nuclear. For the record, any sort of terrorist attack is abhorrent. Bombs are, by their very nature, indiscriminate and it’s worth noting that although the attacks/murders were carried out by Muslim fundamentalists, people of all faiths and creeds lost their lives that day. I am a family man and I work in the City of London. I am more attuned than many to the dangers we face. That said, while I maintain vigilance, I refuse to live in fear of any attack and trust that the police and security services are doing all that they possibly can. Talk of babies and children being burned do nothing to help the situation, it’s not that I’m burying my head in the sand, rather that I wouldn’t want to create any mistrust or fear where there needn’t be any. I’m sick of telling everyone, I’M NOT A CONSERVATIVE COUNCILLOR!

??? wrote:
Stan, I haven’t called anyone stupid. I made a comment about somebody being “barely literate” which, upon reflection, I apologised for. If you read my previous post (and I’m getting tired of repeating myself) I reserve the right to make light of a situation if I don’t believe that such a scenario is likely. I do not doubt that the capability for some form of attack exists (July 7th confirmed this) I just do not believe that it’s nuclear. For the record, any sort of terrorist attack is abhorrent. Bombs are, by their very nature, indiscriminate and it’s worth noting that although the attacks/murders were carried out by Muslim fundamentalists, people of all faiths and creeds lost their lives that day. I am a family man and I work in the City of London. I am more attuned than many to the dangers we face. That said, while I maintain vigilance, I refuse to live in fear of any attack and trust that the police and security services are doing all that they possibly can. Talk of babies and children being burned do nothing to help the situation, it’s not that I’m burying my head in the sand, rather that I wouldn’t want to create any mistrust or fear where there needn’t be any. I’m sick of telling everyone, I’M NOT A CONSERVATIVE COUNCILLOR!

Can I jump in here. Looked at the meaning of stupid and illiterate/barely literate.
stupid
1.Slow to learn to read and write or understand; obtuse.2. Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.3. Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake.4. Dazed, stunned, or stupefied.5. Pointless; worthless: a stupid job.
illiterate
1. not able to read or write 2. uneducated in the fundamentals of a given art or branch of learning; lacking knowledge of a specific field; "she is ignorant of quantum mechanics"; "he is musically illiterate" 3. lacking culture, especially in language and literature noun 1. a person unable to read .
Sounds like the same thing to me. You are spliting hairs, belittleing people what ever fancy words you use.
You found the word "they" offensive. (A quote from your post. " but I do object to the language that's used. If you mean "black people" say it. Don't use terms like "they" it does everybody a dis-service".)
You seem to think its ok to belittle posible BNP voters ,by calling them "barely literate". If I talked about ethnic minority groups like you do, It would be pregatist. That makes you pregatist to barely literate white posible BMP voters. You must be from a ethnic minority or your parentage are ethnic minority.
In the name of democracy we must not have double standards.

mark wrote:

??? wrote: Stan, I haven’t called anyone stupid. I made a comment about somebody being “barely literate” which, upon reflection, I apologised for. If you read my previous post (and I’m getting tired of repeating myself) I reserve the right to make light of a situation if I don’t believe that such a scenario is likely. I do not doubt that the capability for some form of attack exists (July 7th confirmed this) I just do not believe that it’s nuclear. For the record, any sort of terrorist attack is abhorrent. Bombs are, by their very nature, indiscriminate and it’s worth noting that although the attacks/murders were carried out by Muslim fundamentalists, people of all faiths and creeds lost their lives that day. I am a family man and I work in the City of London. I am more attuned than many to the dangers we face. That said, while I maintain vigilance, I refuse to live in fear of any attack and trust that the police and security services are doing all that they possibly can. Talk of babies and children being burned do nothing to help the situation, it’s not that I’m burying my head in the sand, rather that I wouldn’t want to create any mistrust or fear where there needn’t be any. I’m sick of telling everyone, I’M NOT A CONSERVATIVE COUNCILLOR!

Can I jump in here. Looked at the meaning of stupid and illiterate/barely literate. stupid 1.Slow to learn to read and write or understand; obtuse.2. Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.3. Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake.4. Dazed, stunned, or stupefied.5. Pointless; worthless: a stupid job. illiterate 1. not able to read or write 2. uneducated in the fundamentals of a given art or branch of learning; lacking knowledge of a specific field; "she is ignorant of quantum mechanics"; "he is musically illiterate" 3. lacking culture, especially in language and literature noun 1. a person unable to read . Sounds like the same thing to me. You are spliting hairs, belittleing people what ever fancy words you use. You found the word "they" offensive. (A quote from your post. " but I do object to the language that's used. If you mean "black people" say it. Don't use terms like "they" it does everybody a dis-service".) You seem to think its ok to belittle posible BNP voters ,by calling them "barely literate". If I talked about ethnic minority groups like you do, It would be pregatist. That makes you pregatist to barely literate white posible BMP voters. You must be from a ethnic minority or your parentage are ethnic minority. In the name of democracy we must not have double standards.

Well said Mark.

I didn't find the word "they" offensive. I merely pointed out that pepole should be more definite - if they want their comments directed at a particular group.

Where your argument falls down is that I made a comment about an individual, which was based on fact (his previous posts) - which incidentally I later apologised for. That's quite different to making comments about entire group (whether based on ethnicity, gender or sexual preference.)

I can't really comment on the rest of your post (oh learned one) as I don't know what it means to be "pregatist"

Quite what my ethnicity has to do with this is baffling - surely nobody of anything other than the purest anglo-saxon blood could command the Enlgish language with the ease and effectiveness which I do? - typos notwithstanding.

??? wrote:
I didn't find the word "they" offensive. I merely pointed out that pepole should be more definite - if they want their comments directed at a particular group. Where your argument falls down is that I made a comment about an individual, which was based on fact (his previous posts) - which incidentally I later apologised for. That's quite different to making comments about entire group (whether based on ethnicity, gender or sexual preference.) I can't really comment on the rest of your post (oh learned one) as I don't know what it means to be "pregatist" Quite what my ethnicity has to do with this is baffling - surely nobody of anything other than the purest anglo-saxon blood could command the Enlgish language with the ease and effectiveness which I do? - typos notwithstanding.

Its seems like we are all equal,but that some of us are more equal. slagging one person off is ok by you but not ok to have an opinion,just like a tory of ethnic minority.Do as i say not question what i do

Mark, we're all entitled to an opinion. It's a free-country. I may not agree with what you or anyone else has to say, but I fully and totally defend your right to say it. It is o.k. to have the same opinion as an ethnic minority Tory (is that what you were getting at?)

By all means, feel free to question anything I say. I'm only too pleased to provide answers.

Now, while you're "on the line"....what does "pregatist" mean?......

??? Purfleet

All of us have known and do know those who must have the last word. They just refuse to give up till they are right, till they are heard. Most of my children were like this while growing up, we would tell them to be quiet, but they just kept on, until we had to discipline them. Some people just don't know when to quit. We have often said to keep peace, alright you can have the last word!

I truly feel sorry for this man who is so cocksure of himself. He must at all cost be right in his opinion, to feel that the way he views circumstances, and situations must be right and true.

So sad.

Good grief, i dont know about "I wonder" saying i should get a life, i think all these people need to get a life